How Did JB Commit The Killings

[barrier]

It is true.  I will list high profile cases where juries have visited soc and/or been taken to other relevant sites:

- Tony Martin - Bleak Farm
- Barry George - Gowan Ave
- Wests - Cromwell St
- Noye - Hollywood Cottage
- Huntley - College Close
- Bridge - His home

It's a complete travesty the judge and jury were not taken to soc to see for themselves what the prosecution was alleging about window(s).

The prosecution didn't need to,they convinced 10/2 that Bamber was guilty beyond reasonable doubt,whats you're beef with that? if they failed to secure a conviction then maybe you'd have something to whinge about on this point.
Why didn't the defence ask for it?

[Holly Goodhead]

The prosecution didn't need to,they convinced 10/2 that Bamber was guilty beyond reasonable doubt,whats you're beef with that? if they failed to secure a conviction then maybe you'd have something to whinge about on this point.
Why didn't the defence ask for it?

Incompetent, negligent who knows!?

Why take judge and jury to an outside shooting range in an attempt to determine any difference in sound from the rifle with and without silencer which would sound totally different to shots fired inside the farmhouse with soft furnishings and furniture and yet not take judge and jury to WHF to see what the prosecution was alleging re the windows? 

Sounds more like a circus than a criminal trial where a man's liberty was at stake! 

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, usual criminals don't need to re-secure the window and the bathroom window was found to be closed but neot secure and with no reason for it having been opened in the first place, it must have been open all along - regardless of what Taff Jones claimed. Jeremy already admitted to being able to enter WHF and the hacksaw blade was found outside the bathroom window. A reconstruction of this wouldn't be possible now if they have changed the window, if not, then I would be happy to perform it for you.

265. Complaint is made that part of Mr Ainsley's Final Report was not disclosed to the Defence in which he wrote:

"There was no apparent entry to or exit from the house and D.Chief Inspector Jones did in fact examine the inside of all ground floor windows and noted that they were all shut and secured on their latches. The scene was photographed. It seems however that after the inspection of D.Chief Jones some person had partially opened the transom window in the kitchen and also opened the catch on the ground floor bathroom windows. I have been unable to discover the person responsible but there was comment made of the smell in the kitchen and the flies gathering. There is no reason to believe that the bathroom window was opened, but following the departure of the Scene of Crime officer, the witness Police Sergeant Golding secured the windows mentioned."

Was the downstairs bathroom window sash? 

[Holly Goodhead]

That, of course, is assuming permission would be granted, by the Trust and the Eatons, for a reconstruction to be done. I can't imagine any Court giving an order for such, apart from the small matter of financing a replacement window with wood of the same age and condition as the window that was, and then financing the replacement of the replacement.

It wouldn't require permission from the trustees and/or the Eaton's.  The CCRC have wide reaching powers and if a reconstruction of any type required entry to WHF then the CCRC could order it to happen.

[Caroline]

He did not observe anything during the pm's that SC was incapable of.

He has always maintained to this very day afaik he was unable to conclude murder or suicide.  If this wasn't the case why did the CCRC refer the case to CoA on the back of the blood/silencer?  Why does it state in the 2002 CoA doc:

46.From the pathological evidence alone, the pathologist could not say, one way or the other, whether Mrs Caffell had been murdered or had taken her own life.

The prosecutor had every opportunity at trial to tease anything out of Dr Vanezis that supported the prosecution case but nothing. If you disagree please identify what in his court testimony was detrimental to JB.

I repeat again, that he made it clear in his notes that he had he visited the crime scene, he would have had concerns. I don't know why I am having to repoeat this because you already know.

What in his court testimony was favourable to Bamber?

[Caroline]

265. Complaint is made that part of Mr Ainsley's Final Report was not disclosed to the Defence in which he wrote:

"There was no apparent entry to or exit from the house and D.Chief Inspector Jones did in fact examine the inside of all ground floor windows and noted that they were all shut and secured on their latches. The scene was photographed. It seems however that after the inspection of D.Chief Jones some person had partially opened the transom window in the kitchen and also opened the catch on the ground floor bathroom windows. I have been unable to discover the person responsible but there was comment made of the smell in the kitchen and the flies gathering. There is no reason to believe that the bathroom window was opened, but following the departure of the Scene of Crime officer, the witness Police Sergeant Golding secured the windows mentioned."

Was the downstairs bathroom window sash?

Yes, I have read that and it was indeed a sash window.

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes, I have read that and it was indeed a sash window.

273. Further complaint is made that the prosecution failed to disclose the fact that DC Barlow examined the windows of White House Farm on 22 August 1985 and noted nothing of significance in relation to the bathroom window. His statement of 21 November 1985 indicates that:

"on Thursday the 22nd of August I was on duty when I went to White House Farm. There I made an examination of the kitchen window"

There is no reference in the statement to the bathroom window. 274. In notes written for the Essex Review (after trial) he wrote:

"22/8/85 first opportunity to go to White House Farm. Examined all the windows. Most are sash type and could be opened from outside but could not be closed"

[Caroline]

273. Further complaint is made that the prosecution failed to disclose the fact that DC Barlow examined the windows of White House Farm on 22 August 1985 and noted nothing of significance in relation to the bathroom window. His statement of 21 November 1985 indicates that:

"on Thursday the 22nd of August I was on duty when I went to White House Farm. There I made an examination of the kitchen window"

There is no reference in the statement to the bathroom window. 274. In notes written for the Essex Review (after trial) he wrote:

"22/8/85 first opportunity to go to White House Farm. Examined all the windows. Most are sash type and could be opened from outside but could not be closed"

They can be closed, I have done it but it wasn't closed, it was found to be open.

[Myster]

They can be closed, I have done it but it wasn't closed, it was found to be open.

I think you both mean locked and secured with a fastener similar to this one...

[The General]

I think you both mean locked and secured with a fastener similar to this one...

It looks possible to slide the said hacksaw blade though to open that catch, but good luck doing the reverse.

[Myster]

It looks possible to slide the said hacksaw blade though to open that catch, but good luck doing the reverse.

If I remember, Caroline did a mock tryout using a length of strong thread/thin string wrapped around the moving part from outside, then pulled on it to refasten the lock.  No doubt she'll confirm or not.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I thought the bolt fastened vertically, was stuck in the up position and could be knocked into place by tapping on the glass from the outside?

[Myster]

I thought the bolt fastened vertically, was stuck in the up position and could be knocked into place by tapping on the glass from the outside?

That was the kitchen casement-window lock, not the sash-window lock in the toilet/shower room where Bamber is alleged to have entered.  The former was demonstrated in the ITV WHF series by the actress playing Ann Eaton. The toilet/shower room window lock was different, although hard to see on this poor quality photo...

[Vertigo Swirl]

So what are we arguing about?

[barrier]

Out of interest how were the doors locked? key left in?,yale locks? bolted? why couldn't JB leave by a door?