What Time Did The Bamber’s Have Their Last Dinner?

[G-Unit]

Carried up on the sole of a TFU boot, so it has been said many times, but could just have easily resulted from one of the final head shots to June as she lay in the doorway. The fourth casing, thought to have been on the kitchen floor might have been swept away in the later clean-up.

Thirteen cartridge cases were found in the main bedroom. Two bullets were fired at Sheila and seven at June. The remaining four were fired at Nevill. What, therefore could the landing case be associated with?

[Myster]

Thirteen cartridge cases were found in the main bedroom. Two bullets were fired at Sheila and seven at June. The remaining four were fired at Nevill. What, therefore could the landing case be associated with?

DRH 7 is annotated twice (perhaps the same casing in two parts) so a total of 11 casings within the bedroom and two outside - DRH 13 and DRH 14 on the metal carpet separator and mid-landing respectively, both according to the diagram resulted from the second episode to June.

[G-Unit]

DRH 7 is annotated twice (perhaps the same casing in two parts) so a total of 11 casings within the bedroom and two outside - DRH 13 and DRH 14 on the metal carpet separator and mid-landing respectively, both according to the diagram resulted from the second episode to June.

Just more evidence of the inadequate police performance perhaps.

[Eleanor]

Just more evidence of the inadequate police performance perhaps.

It wasn't very good was it.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I was just flying a kite Ispy, you have put a lot more thought into it than I have. I was thinking he could have roared off to make sure the neighbours heard him leave and then doubled back and parked somewhere nearby but I had forgotten about the socks with Junes blood on them!

So here's a thought: When JB was younger and still living at WHF, he would sneak out and back in again through the windows and always got away with it. He knew when they would all definitely be asleep. He knew every squeaky floorboard to avoid and he knew they were all heavy sleepers anyway.The dogs were probably so used to him sneaking about in the night they never barked. None of the neighbours ever saw him and grassed him up either so he had the confidence to break in and start shooting.

We will never know exactly, unless he confesses.

Spot on, CS.

And actually, the neighbours never saw him as he knew how to avoid being seen, Don't forget, there were very few houses nearby anyway; he knew all the unlit tracks and roads; and at midnight most people are asleep anyway...especially in 1985 when TV closed down at midnight; there was no internet; and the locals were all farmers who had to wake early...,

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Allegedly, June was a light sleeper. Sorreeeee!!!!

Yes, June was a light sleeper, apparently, but Sheila too used to sneak out at night by climbing down the drainpipe to meet her friends — so they obviously knew which floorboards creaked and which didn’t 🤸🏻‍♂️

[ISpyWithMyEye]

If JB committed the murders some hours before the claimed tel call from NB wouldn't it have been obvious the victims had been dead for longer to those at soc and the two pathologists who had access to soc images?

Conversely JB could not have know the police would delay entry so how would he explain NB alive at circa 3.30 am if he had been dead for some 4 hours?

CC said when he stayed at WHF NB went to bed before June.

June's head was on the pillow when she was first shot

If JB didn't call JM from GH where did he call her from?

NV was found in his pj's and there's an indentation in his pillow.

Where do NB's night time rituals come from in terms of a cig and nightcap in the lounge before bed?

Maybe that’s why Jeremy kept asking them to break in when they first got there?

Then again, I doubt he would have known anything about human biology and how long it takes for dead bodies to go through different processes. He failed miserably at school; had no access to the Internet, obviously, never seemed interested in books — so his knowledge was extremely limited.

As for pathologists determining a time of death, it can vary depending on many things: air temperature, cause of death, the individual’s chemistry, various things, so they can only give a window and that window can vary by several hours depending on a host of things.

I never suggested Jeremy murdered Nevill at 11:30pm, Holly. I suggested he may have murdered him at 1am: just two hours before 3am when Jeremy claimed Nevill called him (he was never clear about the time...3, 3:15...) so Jeremy wouldn’t have known what happens to a dead body in just one/two hours...

Yes, Nevill did usually go to bed before June according to CC, but that night Jeremy knew he couldn’t as he’d left him to collect the rapeseed, knowing June would be in bed before Nevill.

June’s head would have been on the pillow when she was shot — she was asleep. Jeremy crept in quietly...had Sheila suddenly gone berserk, screaming, rambling, shouting and thrashing around in the kitchen June would DEFINITELY have got up, wouldn’t she?!

I never said JB didn’t go to Goldhanger: I said he did. He rang Julie from there. And that’s where he changed into his wetsuit...

I’m assuming Nevill had his usual nightcap after his shower..,maybe he didn’t bother. So what?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

On the floor, they are part of the fabric object next to him. They are under his. knee so weren't placed there later by police as some have suggested.

As Nevill always took his shower downstairs at night, do you think it’s possible he undressed in the kitchen by the Aga as it was warm, placed his clothes on a chair ready to go in the wash, showered, and then put either his pyjamas on in the kitchen then relaxed for a bit in the sitting room with his G&T and cigarette?

I can’t think of any other reason...

[Holly Goodhead]

Thirteen cartridge cases were found in the main bedroom. Two bullets were fired at Sheila and seven at June. The remaining four were fired at Nevill. What, therefore could the landing case be associated with?

June sustained 7 entry wounds, 3 exit wounds and 1 non-penetrating gouge wound.  Initially it was thought the gouge was caused by one of the other entry or exit wounds meaning in total the rifle was discharged 7 x's against June. This would have tallied up with the casings found at soc on Wed 7th Aug and Thu 8th Aug.  DC Hammersley was responsible for collecting the casings, hence the acronym DRH.  He was also present at pm when Dr V was identifying victims' gsw's and recovering bullets.  As you've said it tallied in terms of 2 x casings SC, 7 x casings June and 4 x casings NB.  However on Fri 9th Aug casing DRH/43 was found underneath the wardrobe.  On this basis it was decided at trial that the non-penetrating gouge only wound sustained by June was in fact an independent gsw and not caused by one of the other 7 entry wounds or 3 exit wounds. Meaning the rifle was discharged a total of 8 x's against June. At the lab DRH/7 morphed into DRH/7a and DRH/7b but at trial 2 x DRH/7's were presented.

It also tallies with the number of bullets found at soc: DRH/5, DRH/35 x 2 (both found enbedded in June's pillow) and DRH/9 ie the 3 exit wounds June sustained and the 1 non-penetrating gouge wound.  Obiviously the other 4 bullets were recovered at pm.

Sources: Trial testimony: DC Hammersly, Dr V and MAlcom Fletcher.

[Holly Goodhead]

NB sustained 4 entry wounds in the kitchen but only 3 casings were recovered.

A cartridge measures 1 inch in length and from memory of handling them they are about 0.5 - 0.7mm in diameter.  The bullet accounts for about 1/3rd of the length so you're looking at something tiny which could quite easily have got lost and been thrown out. You can see also from soc images the kitchen is full of clutter.

DC Hammersly confirmed at trial no sweepings were taken from the floor.

It makes no sense whatsoever that somehow the missing casing from the kitchen somehow mysteriously arrived upstairs underneath a police officer's boot or it got stuck in the rifle and the perp manually ejected upstairs.  If this was so how can it be explained that 4 bullets were found upstairs?

[Holly Goodhead]

On the floor, they are part of the fabric object next to him. They are under his. knee so weren't placed there later by police as some have suggested.

I think I recall Myster turning up some further info on this some months back.

[Holly Goodhead]

Conversely JB could not have know the police would delay entry so how would he explain NB alive at circa 3.30 am if he had been dead for some 4 hours? Unarmed police would walk into a situation where guns are an issue? Do you think people couldn't do their homework back in 1985? It wasn't the dark ages Holly./quote]

Funnily enough, there is an oddball on twitter that repeatedly posts a link to an episode of Brookside, shown just prior to the murders, that depicts a siege situation. There was also the famous embassy siege in the 80's - Bamber had painted the picture of a possible hostage situation, it would be unlikely the police would go bursting in.

Even if he was relying on some delay he could not have relied upon some 4 hours.

[APRIL]

Even if he was relying on some delay he could not have relied upon some 4 hours.

Of course, he couldn't. He could only rely on the strength of his own delaying tactics.

[Common sense]

Even if he was relying on some delay he could not have relied upon some 4 hours.

I don't think anyone can assume that JB couldn't know that police wouldn't go storming in to a potential hostage situation. The iranian embassy siege lasted for 6 days and was big news. I doubt JB was expecting the SAS to turn up when he thumbed through the phone book.

Come to think of it, was not dialling 999 part of his ruse in this regard, so the police wouldn't immediately scramble the armed bobbies?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Even if he was relying on some delay he could not have relied upon some 4 hours.

Although Jeremy Bamber isn’t the sharpest tool in the box, even he knew unarmed police wouldn’t enter the house and back then it would take time to call in armed units.

He also made sure he terrified the police by saying “Sheila’s a nutter” “Sheila’s a psychopath “ “Sheila has used lots of guns”

All lies, of course, designed to prevent them going in sooner.