would you leave your children alone like the mcanns did?? and if not why

[carlymichelle]

this is  for the pros mainly why do you  condone the mcanns leaving 3 children  alone?? no matter what did happen to maddie most countries in the world considrr that child neglect at the very least .And   here and in many countries they would have been charged and put in jail for leaving them home alone. Here in australia you cannot legally leave a  child under  12 home alone therefore what the mcanns did would be classed as a violation of the  law here

[carlymichelle]

The law in Australia

There’s no actual law that states at what age children can or can’t be left alone. But the law is clear about the responsibility of parents to look after their children, and parents are expected to make ‘reasonable’ decisions about their children’s safety.

While different societies and cultures have different customs, in Australia there’s a legal obligation for parents to make sure their children are properly looked after. They’re expected to provide their children with food, clothing, a place to live, safety and supervision.

Parents can be charged with an offence if children are left in a dangerous situation and aren’t fed, clothed or provided with accommodation.

The police or Children, Youth and Family Services can remove children from situations where their safety is in serious danger and where there’s no guardian present.

[debunker]

Neither the Portuguese nor the English legal system considered that the crime of neglect had occurred.

DO you not remember Debunker's Challenge-

ANy case in the UK where children were left alone in a domestic setting with claimed checks every 20-30 minutes, in the absence of any previous child care or criminal problems, where a criminal charge was successful in court.

NO one has found such a case in si,x years.

Pretty good guide that though what the McCanns did was very doubtful (IMHO) it was not criminal.

[John]

this is  for the pros mainly why do you  condone the mcanns leaving 3 children  alone?? no matter what did happen to maddie most countries in the world considrr that child neglect at the very least .And   here and in many countries they would have been charged and put in jail for leaving them home alone. Here in australia you cannot legally leave a  child under  12 home alone therefore what the mcanns did would be classed as a violation of the  law here

It all depends on your interpretation of the words 'leave alone' carly. 

Is being 60 yds away leaving them alone when they were checked every 20 mins?

Is leaving a child alone in another bedroom in a large house acceptable?

At the end of the day it is for the parent to make that judgement. 

[carlymichelle]

well in the mcann case they were not with the children they   were in a tapas bar approx  5 or  10 minutes walk was it not??    anything could happen to a 3 year old and 2 year olds in that little time  and clearly no matter what anyones view in this case something  did indeed happen to maddie.........  so i do  find that neglectful especally since she was heard crying and they still went out

[debunker]

well in the mcann case they were not with the children they   were in a tapas bar approx  5 or  10 minutes walk was it not??    anything could happen to a 3 year old and 2 year olds in that little time  and clearly no matter what anyones view in this case something  did indeed happen to maddie.........  so i do  find that neglectful especally since she was heard crying and they still went out

I repeat Portugal and English legal systems found nothing to prosecute. No similar case has ever resulted in a guilty finding.

Ill-advised,yes, criminal neglect, no.

[John]

well in the mcann case they were not with the children they   were in a tapas bar approx  5 or  10 minutes walk was it not??    anything could happen to a 3 year old and 2 year olds in that little time  and clearly no matter what anyones view in this case something  did indeed happen to maddie.........  so i do  find that neglectful especally since she was heard crying and they still went out

Agree carly but it is not a criminal offence.  Many people have done it and continue to do so when on holiday.

[gilet]

well in the mcann case they were not with the children they   were in a tapas bar approx  5 or  10 minutes walk was it not??    anything could happen to a 3 year old and 2 year olds in that little time  and clearly no matter what anyones view in this case something  did indeed happen to maddie.........  so i do  find that neglectful especally since she was heard crying and they still went out

Actually it was not approximately 5 or ten minutes walk as you posit.

There is actually a video of Martin Brunt walking from a table at the Tapas to the Apartment. It takes him 80 paces and he does it in 48 seconds.

It really behoves those wishing to comment on the case to get the facts right before they make pronouncements.

You appear to be another person who places themself in the position of being more knowledgeable than those directly involved with the case. Whilst the Attorney General was precise in his complete dismissal of charges against the McCanns for the conduct you deplore you still denigrate them for it. Interesting.

[Cudge]

well in the mcann case they were not with the children they   were in a tapas bar approx  5 or  10 minutes walk was it not??   

It's quite amazing (or perhaps I shouldn't be amazed) that after 6 years people like you are STILL getting fundamental details like this wrong. It takes about 10 minutes for the average person to walk half a mile, that's 800 metres. The distance from the Tapas Bar to the Apartment was 50-ish metres as the crow flies and around 80-ish metres to walk it.  You really need to brush up on your McCannology mate.

It would appear  the distance to The Tapas Bar is another Myth that has just been dispelled. Maybethis  wants adding to The Myths thread. Perhaps we should thank our little Antipodean friend for bringing it to our attention

[stephen25000]

well in the mcann case they were not with the children they   were in a tapas bar approx  5 or  10 minutes walk was it not??   

It's quite amazing (or perhaps I shouldn't be amazed) that after 6 years people like you are STILL getting fundamental details like this wrong. It takes about 10 minutes for the average person to walk half a mile, that's 800 metres. The distance from the Tapas Bar to the Apartment was 50-ish metres as the crow flies and around 80-ish metres to walk it.  You really need to brush up on your McCannology mate.

It would appear  the distance to The Tapas Bar is another Myth that has just been dispelled. Maybethis  wants adding to The Myths thread. Perhaps we should thank our little Antipodean friend for bringing it to our attention

Quite agree.

At a fast walking pace, a quick  walk.

However, you do not know how fast these people were walking, whether distracted and/or the influence of alcohol, and of course we all know what alcohol does to human reflexes and reaction times.

That also applies to the so called 'regular' checks, which had no independent verification, and were also subject to the distracting effects of Ethanol consumption.

Try not to overlook the obvious.

[debunker]

Quite agree.

At a fast walking pace, a quick  walk.



However, you do not know how fast these people were walking, whether distracted and/or the influence of alcohol, and of course we all know what alcohol does to human reflexes and reaction times.

That also applies to the so called 'regular' checks, which had no independent verification, and were also subject to the distracting effects of Ethanol consumption.

Try not to overlook the obvious.

How much alcohol did they drink before 10pm?

[stephen25000]

Quite agree.

At a fast walking pace, a quick  walk.



However, you do not know how fast these people were walking, whether distracted and/or the influence of alcohol, and of course we all know what alcohol does to human reflexes and reaction times.

That also applies to the so called 'regular' checks, which had no independent verification, and were also subject to the distracting effects of Ethanol consumption.

Try not to overlook the obvious.

How much alcohol did they drink before 10pm?

Do want that on each night ?

I suggest you read the witness statements from the waiters on that ?

From recollection one night it amounted to 10 bottles in the group,l with some estimates including the consumption of aperitifs , would raise it to a higher threshold.

As to the effects of Ethanol consumption on human metabolisms and reaction times, etc., well documented.

[debunker]

Do want that on each night ?


I suggest you read the witness statements from the waiters on that ?

From recollection one night it amounted to 10 bottles in the group,l with some estimates including the consumption of aperitifs , would raise it to a higher threshold.



As to the effects of Ethanol consumption on human metabolisms and reaction times, etc., well documented.

Perhaps you could provide a cite and a link for that information. Otherwise we shall have to think that you are just making factoids up.

You are suggesting they were drunk; prove it!

[stephen25000]

Perhaps you could provide a cite and a link for that information. Otherwise we shall have to think that you are just making factoids up.

You are suggesting they were drunk; prove it!

I didn't say they were drunk, that's the assumption you made.

I said distracting effects of alcohol and don't pretend that doesn't happen.

As to the waiters accounts, get off your rear end and search yourself.

If you want a servant pay for one.

P.S. Nothing I've seen so far in your writing shows a neutral standpoint.

YUou know the Mccanns and party were drinking.

The relative volumes of alcohol required to impair normal functioning varies from person to person.

[Cudge]

well in the mcann case they were not with the children they   were in a tapas bar approx  5 or  10 minutes walk was it not??   

It's quite amazing (or perhaps I shouldn't be amazed) that after 6 years people like you are STILL getting fundamental details like this wrong. It takes about 10 minutes for the average person to walk half a mile, that's 800 metres. The distance from the Tapas Bar to the Apartment was 50-ish metres as the crow flies and around 80-ish metres to walk it.  You really need to brush up on your McCannology mate.

It would appear  the distance to The Tapas Bar is another Myth that has just been dispelled. Maybethis  wants adding to The Myths thread. Perhaps we should thank our little Antipodean friend for bringing it to our attention

Quite agree.

At a fast walking pace, a quick  walk.

However, you do not know how fast these people were walking, whether distracted and/or the influence of alcohol, and of course we all know what alcohol does to human reflexes and reaction times.

That also applies to the so called 'regular' checks, which had no independent verification, and were also subject to the distracting effects of Ethanol consumption.

Try not to overlook the obvious.

How long do you think it takes to walk 80 metres even after a bottle of wine ? I could probably crawl that distance on my hands and knees in less than 3 minutes