Why did the FSS in the UK botch the DNA tests?

[John]

It is clear that the Forensic Science Service in the UK  (now disbanded)  made a complete mess of the DNA analyses in this case.  Furthermore, their leaking of the initial report was so unprofessional and a complete shambles.

The evidence shows that the FSS initially leaked information to the Press to the effect that Madeleine's DNA had been found in the Renault Scenic hire car which had been hired by the McCanns weeks after Madeleine's disappearance.  This lead directly to the McCanns becoming official suspects in Portugal known as 'arguidos'.

It is suspected that the debacle over the Omagh Bomb case led to some reappraisal of the conclusions in the DNA analysis and much reconsideration of the Low Copy Number (LCN) techniques.

What was initially leaked as positive results then suddenly became erroneous and when the official Report was delivered to the Portuguese Authorities it became apparent that the results were not as cut and dry as was originally reported.

The bottom line was and still is that there is NO Evidence that Madeleine's' DNA was found in the hire car.

Following this revelation the Portuguese Police had lost their smoking gun and had no choice but to revoke the arguido status afforded the McCanns.

 

[gilet]

The evidence shows that the FSS initially leaked information to the Press

Could you please cite the evidence for this, thanks.

Thank you. I was just about to ask for the same.

I am particularly interested in the evidence for the claim that the FSS leaked information to the press. I have not seen anything to suggest that before but I may have simply missed it.

[Eleanor]

It wasn't The FFS that leaked the information.  Their vastly misunderstood analysis came from elements of The PJ, although no one knows who.
Whoever leaked what they thought had been found, simply did not understand Forensics or DNA.

[debunker]

It is clear that the Forensic Science Service in the UK  (now disbanded)  made a complete mess of the DNA analyses in this case.  Furthermore, their leaking of the initial report was so unprofessional and a complete shambles.

The evidence shows that the FSS initially leaked information to the Press to the effect that Madeleine's DNA had been found in the Renault Scenic hire car which had been hired by the McCanns weeks after Madeleine's disappearance.  This lead directly to the McCanns becoming official suspects in Portugal known as 'arguidos'.

It is suspected that the debacle over the Omagh Bomb case led to some reappraisal of the conclusions in the DNA analysis and much reconsideration of the Low Copy Number (LCN) techniques.

What was initially leaked as positive results then suddenly became erroneous and when the official Report was delivered to the
Portuguese Authorities it became apparent that the results were not as cut and dry as was originally reported.

The bottom line was and still is that there is NO Evidence that Madeleine's' DNA was found in the hire car.

Following this revelation the Portuguese Police had lost their smoking gun and had no choice but to revoke the arguido status afforded the McCanns.

Which source are you using for that information?

[icabodcrane]

It wasn't The FFS that leaked the information.  Their vastly misunderstood analysis came from elements of The PJ, although no one knows who.
Whoever leaked what they thought had been found, simply did not understand Forensics or DNA.

Could you please cite the evidence for this, thanks

[Carana]

1

It is clear that the Forensic Science Service in the UK  (now disbanded)  made a complete mess of the DNA analyses in this case.  Furthermore, their leaking of the initial report was so unprofessional and a complete shambles.

2a The evidence shows that the FSS initially leaked information to the Press to the effect that Madeleine's DNA had been found in the Renault Scenic hire car which had been hired by the McCanns weeks after Madeleine's disappearance.  This lead directly to the McCanns becoming official suspects in Portugal known as 'arguidos'.

It is suspected that the debacle over the Omagh Bomb case led to some reappraisal of the conclusions in the DNA analysis and much reconsideration of the Low Copy Number (LCN) techniques.

2b What was initially leaked as positive results then suddenly became erroneous and when the official Report was delivered to the Portuguese Authorities it became apparent that the results were not as cut and dry as was originally reported.

The bottom line was and still is that there is NO Evidence that Madeleine's' DNA was found in the hire car.

Following this revelation the Portuguese Police had lost their smoking gun and had no choice but to revoke the arguido status afforded the McCanns.

1 What makes you think that the FSS made a mess?

2 What makes you think that the FSS leaked?

[Eleanor]

It wasn't The FFS that leaked the information.  Their vastly misunderstood analysis came from elements of The PJ, although no one knows who.
Whoever leaked what they thought had been found, simply did not understand Forensics or DNA.

Could you please cite the evidence for this, thanks

No.  Read The Files. 
There is no evidence to suggest that The FSS leaked anything.  They sent their analysis to The PJ who then misread it.

[gilet]

According to this press report the source of the DNA match story seems to be the Portuguese police and the Portuguese media. http://metro.co.uk/2007/09/11/maddys-body-fluids-found-in-car-boot-109048/

Thank you for that.

[debunker]

Going on memory I think that there was a courtesy call from the FSS to the PJ which was over-interpreted by them. A myth started which was proved wrong in the final report..

[Carana]

I have never found anything reliable to suggest that any leaks had come from the FSS...

[gilet]

I have never found anything reliable to suggest that any leaks had come from the FSS...

I have never found anything at all, reliable or otherwise, beyond the spurious forum and social media postings of various McCann denigrators. When asked those people have always failed to provide any evidence of the claim.

[John]

So lets see, the Portuguese Press and then the British Press carry stories proclaiming that the materials tested positive for Madeleine McCann and the FSS don't deny it?

Are we to believe they made the whole thing up then?

[debunker]

The FSS had a commercial and professional relationship with the PJ and would be unlikely to speak publicly about the results.

THe entire initial report is available here
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id268.html

WEll down the page, titled

    
The 'Second' Forensic Report by John Robert Lowe, 18 June 2008
    
OUTROS APENSOS I, volume

DAted 18 June 2008

NOwhere does it say that Madeleine's DNA was identified.

IN fact it concludes

"Conclusion

In my opinion, the laboratory results that were attained did not help to clarify whether or not the DNA results obtained within the scope of this case were from Madeleine McCann."

[Carana]

Yesterday an FSS spokesman said: "The tests remain ongoing...."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-496816/Madeleine-McCanns-clear-DNA-evidence-proves-inconclusive.html#ixzz2PfFmOaTS
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[debunker]

The final FSS report confirmed that no conclusive evidence was available.

AN email was sent from Mr Lowe of the FSS to Stuart Prior a police coordinator with Leicester police
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm#p10p2615.  At 2617-2623
Task Portugal
From: "Prior Stuart" <Stuart.Prior@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk>
To: "Task Portugal" <Task.Portugal@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk>
Sent: 04 September 2007 10:14
Subject: FW: Op Task - in Confidence

From: Lowe, Mr J R [mailto:John.Lowe@fss.pnn.police.uk
Sent: 03 September 2007 15:01
To: stuart.prior@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk
Subject: Op Task - In Confidence

Stuart

Firstly, here are the last three results you are expecting

An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.

There is no evidence to support the view that Madeline MCCann contributed DNA to the swab 3B.

A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

Why - ...

Well lets look at the question that is being asked

"Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab "

It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.

What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears to match the result by chance. The individual components in Madeline's profile are not unique to her, it is the specific combination of 19 components that makes her profile unique above all others. Elements of Madeline's profile are also present within the the profiles of many of the scientists here in Birmingham, myself included. it's important to stress that 50% of Madeline's profile will be shared with each parent. It is not possible in a mixture of more than two people, to determine or evaluate which specific DNA components pair with each other. Namely, we cannot separate the components out into 3 individual DNA profiles.

Therefore, we cannot answer the question: is the match genuine or is it a chance match.

The same applies to any result that is quoted as being too complex for meaningful inclusion/interpretation

What questions will we never be able to answer with LCN DNA profiling -

When was the DNA deposited -
How was the DNA deposited -
What body fluid(s) does the DIVA originate from -
Was a crime committed -

These, along with all other results, will be formalised in a final report

Please don't hesitate to contact me if you require any further assistance

kind regards
John

John Lowe Forensic Scientist
Major Incidents Team
Priory House
Inter Facility: 703 6973
External: 0121 607 6973
Fax: 0121 6221807