Thoughts On The Case

[Caroline]

Actually, there is.  Actually, you'd be doing me a favour.  And I don't like it that a probable mass murderer appears to have an unsafe conviction.  I'd like to form the view that his conviction is safe.

I'm just not convinced by what I have heard so far.  I know this doesn't apply to you, but one way to really turn me against what you are saying is to start bullying me or impugning my motives.  I'm only human.

I really think that Julie Mugford's evidence is one of two weak points in the prosecution case and the Crown may yet, one day, come to regret ever calling her.

I have actually already asked you if you can give reason why she would invent a hitman and name him as someone both she and Bamber knew. Matthew McDonald was someone who Jeremy dealt drugs with, but he didn't like him because he tried it on with one of his ex girlfriends when they were together.

To answer a point you made in reply to I Spy, if she were coerced, then not only did she lie, but Susan Battersby must have lied too ........ and Liz Rimmington ......... and Malcolm Waters too.

[Caroline]

You would think the Crown might have learned by its lesson  re the 3 school girls called at the trial of Stefan Kiszko.

Oh not poor old Stephan again - he was a REAL MOJ! Not this chancer!

[Holly Goodhead]

Although (as you mentioned earlier) Sheila suffered from mental illness, she was medicated and although (as you also mentioned earlier) her meds were reduced, this was because she had symptoms over being over medicated and after her death, she was found to have a moderate dose of her meds still in her system.I have challenged others to find an example of a medicated schizophrenic who  killed in a psychotic episode; so far we have no examples. I sure they do exist but they seem to be like hens teeth.

My challenge to you Caro...

I will find the above and bet you can't find another case or forensic lit about drawback with a silencer.

Challenge on? 

[Nicholas]

I really think that Julie Mugford's evidence is one of two weak points in the prosecution case and the Crown may yet, one day, come to regret ever calling her.

I don’t and it’s possible her evidence may have strengthened with the passage of time

[Nicholas]

had an incentive to give evidence against Bamber

Can you list what JM’s incentive or incentives to give evidence against Bamber were

[Aunt Agatha]

Can you list what JM’s incentive or incentives to give evidence against Bamber were

A deal with the NOW only upon him being found guilty.

New identity to a country of her choosing.

A clear criminal record.

A new life.....thats just for starters!

[Nicholas]

How do you account for Christine Bacon taken in for questioning and held in custody overnight?

The entire group were Holly

[Nicholas]

JM wasn’t found guilty of any crime - she wasn’t prosecuted either and re the accusation of her being accused of ‘smuggling cannabis from Canada’ this appears to have been made up ?

Now isn't that a surprise!!

Other than delay the trial, what difference do you think it would have made to Bamber's murder trial if JM had been found guilty for the cheque book fraud and then given her evidence Aunt Agatha ?

[Nicholas]

Now isn't that a surprise!!

Has JM been falsely accused of ‘smuggling cannabis from Canada’ Aunt Agatha - as reported by Eric Allison for the Guardian (2012) ?

[Nicholas]

and was being paid by a newspaper and concealed the fact?

JM was flown over from Canada to give evidence at Bamber’s appeal in 2002

The BBC reported,

“Bamber claims in his appeal that police tried to bolster Mrs Smerchanski's image, as she was their star witness.

The appeal hearing has been told that the case of Bamber was built on a "series of deceits".

It has been claimed during the hearing that she had intended to sell her story to the News of the World for £25,000 before the trial and not afterwards.

“It had been expected that Mrs Smerchanski, 37, would be called by the Crown to be cross-examined by Bamber's barrister on the sixth day of the hearing.

Lord Justice Kay, Mr Justice Wright and Mr Justice Henriques gave permission for her to be called, but no application was made for her to do so.

After the lunchtime adjournment, and following submissions from lawyers for both parties, she was released as a witness. [/font]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2358021.stm


Does anyone know what Bamber’s submissions were and what the Crown countered them with?

[Caroline]

My challenge to you Caro...

I will find the above and bet you can't find another case or forensic lit about drawback with a silencer.

Challenge on? 

Funny you should mention that ............. 

[Nicholas]

A deal with the NOW only upon him being found guilty.

Is that what was agreed Aunt Agatha ?

Don’t you think the NOW would have paid her and carried out an interview regardless of the outcome ?

Gordon Park was paid £50k, twice what JM was paid and he was a murderer - albeit he’d yet to be convicted

Gordon Park was paid £50,000 for an interview with the Mail on Sunday https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SZeFTLPGtigC&pg=PT274&lpg=PT274&dq=gordon+park+paid+£50,000+for+interview&source=bl&ots=iBPefMrN2F&sig=ACfU3U1kk7RnLjGHQFTgnmdPYlOY_U30zA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7ofy[Name removed]MDlAhXzoXEKHbn8CSIQ6AEwD3oECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=gordon%20park%20paid%20£50%2C000%20for%20interview&f=false

[Nicholas]

A deal with the NOW only upon him being found guilty.

How many ‘deals’ did Bamber have set up at the time?

We know of the one with the Sun through his then girlfriend Anji Greaves; she was sat waiting in a hotel with a journalist

[Nicholas]

You know about Anji Greaves don’t you Aunt Agatha - the girlfriend Bamber supporters confuse with Virginia

“Wednesday 4 September 1985 – Jeremy took Julie to a café close to Sheila’s apartment shortly before 4pm and gave her a cheque for £400 to pay for a holiday with Liz Rimmington[6]. He then discussed their relationship, and after his arrest Julie banked this cheque along with another from Jeremy. On returning to Sheila’s apartment, Jeremy received a telephone call from another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves. In fury, Julie ran into the bedroom, picked up a wooden Chinese trick box that belonged to Jeremy and threw it into a mirror, smashing it into pieces. Brett Collins also witnessed this from the next room in the apartment.
[/i]
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness

[Nicholas]

Is that what was agreed Aunt Agatha ?

Don’t you think the NOW would have paid her and carried out an interview regardless of the outcome ?

Gordon Park was paid £50k, twice what JM was paid and he was a murderer - albeit he’d yet to be convicted

This is what was written about the witnesses who gave evidence against Gordon Park

“More potentially damning – if notoriously unreliable – was the evidence of two “jailhouse snitches” who claimed Park had confessed separately to them during his two-week remand in Preston prison in 1997. Leaving aside the unlikely scenario of a man who has steadfastly protested his innocence to family, friends and lawyers suddenly opening up to complete strangers, their testimony suffered from an embarrassing divergence of content.

Glen Banks, a “highly suggestible” man with a severe learning difficulty with whom Park had briefly shared a cell, claimed: “He said he killed his missus while on a boat in Blackpool.” Meanwhile, Michael Wainwright, a 12-joints-a-day cannabis addict with a tendency for “hearing voices”, claimed Park had told him he had gone upstairs, found his wife in bed with another man and killed her in a fit of rage.
http://www.nickthorpe.co.uk/journalism/news-and-features/lady-in-lake-sunday-herald/