Why would Julie do this? Say this?

[APRIL]

I can't explain anything like that, but the idea that I'm exploring is that Jeremy may have been checking that Jullie had got back safely at around 3:00 AM. Once knowing she was back in London he could ring the police and tell them the story about his father ringing him and his sister going berserk with a gun.

So how do you propose getting round that she spent the evening in the company of her house mates, and how do you get round that she was in their presence when she received the first phone call, and how do you explain her travelling back to London from Essex when Jeremy's Goldhanger home was miles from the nearest station, and how do you think she'd managed to master a gun well enough to ensure every bullet found a home? More to the point, what reason would she have had? No matter, explore away if it amuses you, but you'll run into a brick wall at each turn.

[Caroline]

I can't explain anything like that, but the idea that I'm exploring is that Jeremy may have been checking that Jullie had got back safely at around 3:00 AM. Once knowing she was back in London he could ring the police and tell them the story about his father ringing him and his sister going berserk with a gun.

He rings Julie before the call from his father/call to the police regarding this call.  But his reason for ringing at that hour was to check if he was doing the right thing.   But he wouldn't have known about it at that stage.

This didn't happen.

[APRIL]

And if already dead, how did Bamber receive a call from Neville?

Yes! We could fill a book with reasons why Julie didn't/couldn't have committed the murders.

[Robittybob1]

Yes! We could fill a book with reasons why Julie didn't/couldn't have committed the murders.

Well if my mini theory has any credence there was no phonecall from Neville at 3:30 AM but there may have been one earlier in the night.
Between 10:00 PM and 3:00 AM is 5 hours more than enough time to travel to Essex and back.

How many cars did Bamber own?

[Caroline]

Well if my mini theory has any credence there was no phonecall from Neville at 3:30 AM but there may have been one earlier in the night.
Between 10:00 PM and 3:00 AM is 5 hours more than enough time to travel to Essex and back.

How many cars did Bamber own?

It doesn't.

[Robittybob1]

Well if my mini theory has any credence there was no phonecall from Neville at 3:30 AM but there may have been one earlier in the night.
Between 10:00 PM and 3:00 AM is 5 hours more than enough time to travel to Essex and back.

How many cars did Bamber own?

https://murderpedia.org/male.B/images/bamber_jeremy/20011745.pdf page 21
"134. At one point during the interviews the appellant said that following the call from his father
he had telephoned Julie Mugford before the police. It was pointed out to him that in his
earlier witness statements he had said he rang the police immediately upon receipt of his
father’s call and only after calling the police had he rung Miss Mugford. He responded that
he may be confused about the sequence of telephone calls. He could not explain why having
received the call from his father he had not immediately telephoned 999. "

In my mini-theory Jeremy had the call from his father before ringing the police and his girlfriend, and he rang Julie first then the police.   He admitted being confused but did not explain which version was the correct one.

It is possible the call from his father was as early as 10:00 PM the day before the murders.

[Myster]

https://murderpedia.org/male.B/images/bamber_jeremy/20011745.pdf page 21
"134. At one point during the interviews the appellant said that following the call from his father
he had telephoned Julie Mugford before the police. It was pointed out to him that in his
earlier witness statements he had said he rang the police immediately upon receipt of his
father’s call and only after calling the police had he rung Miss Mugford. He responded that
he may be confused about the sequence of telephone calls. He could not explain why having
received the call from his father he had not immediately telephoned 999. "

In my mini-theory Jeremy had the call from his father before ringing the police and his girlfriend, and he rang Julie first then the police.   He admitted being confused but did not explain which version was the correct one.

It is possible the call from his father was as early as 10:00 PM the day before the murders.

Nevill Bamber's trumped-up call occurred between 3.15 and 3.30 am. according to this horse's mouth...

https://soundcloud.com/phil-garlic/unknown-album

[Robittybob1]

Nevill Bamber's trumped-up call occurred between 3.15 and 3.30 am. according to this horse's mouth...

https://soundcloud.com/phil-garlic/unknown-album

That sounds plausible if Jeremy thought he was speaking to his dad.  I notice he says he recognised his dad's voice, so the person on the phone never said it was Nevill Bamber.   He then rings his dad's number but as we know the phone is off the hook and he gets the engaged tone.  Tries again without any luck.   

The 3:15 - 3:30 AM  incoming call could have been faked by someone else other than his dad.  We can't tell where that call originated.

[Myster]

That sounds plausible if Jeremy thought he was speaking to his dad.  I notice he says he recognised his dad's voice, so the person on the phone never said it was Nevill Bamber.   He then rings his dad's number but as we know the phone is off the hook and he gets the engaged tone.  Tries again without any luck.   

The 3:15 - 3:30 AM  incoming call could have been faked by someone else other than his dad.  We can't tell where that call originated.

So who do you think this mysterious assassin-cum-impressionist could be?

[Vertigo Swirl]

So who do you think this mysterious assassin-cum-impressionist could be?

Julie putting on a deep voice.

[Robittybob1]

So who do you think this mysterious assassin-cum-impressionist could be?

The other aspect that makes me think it wasn't Nevill Bamber on the phone is that he says to Jeremy "your sister".  Now a father would be more likely to say her name "Sheila"  or "our daughter"  rather than the more distant "Your sister".

I don't know who it could be, as I have not studied the case enough yet but from that, I'd say it seems unlikely to be Jeremy's father.

"Please come over. Your sister has gone crazy and has the gun."  Wasn't there more than one gun in the house?

"Please come over"  The person is aware of the local situation. 

[barrier]

The other aspect that makes me think it wasn't Nevill Bamber on the phone is that he says to Jeremy "your sister".  Now a father would be more likely to say her name "Sheila"  or "our daughter"  rather than the more distant "Your sister".

I don't know who it could be, as I have not studied the case enough yet but from that, I'd say it seems unlikely to be Jeremy's father.

"Please come over. Your sister has gone crazy and has the gun."  Wasn't there more than one gun in the house?

"Please come over"  The person is aware of the local situation.

Of course if the phone call never happened ,there are no words to have a play on.

[Robittybob1]

Of course if the phone call never happened ,there are no words to have a play on.

https://murderpedia.org/male.B/images/bamber_jeremy/20011745.pdf  Page 25.

vii) The appellant’s account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be
false for the following reasons:
a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;
b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;
c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police
before the appellant;
d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately
made a 999 call, alerted the farmworkers who lived close to the farmhouse
and then driven at speed to his parents home; and
e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he
subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency
system."

The girls at the flat seemed to recall the call by Jeremy was nearer 3:00 AM rather than 3:30.  Jeremy called the Police at 3:30 so it wasn't that much delay as they make out.

It is an odd situation to be in, to be requested to come to a house where someone has gone crazy with a gun.  Jeremy could have felt he was being set-up and someone was planning to shoot him as well.   I too would let the police lead the break in to the farm house.


In the next section:
"vii) In respect of the telephone call from his father, the appellant had not initially
appreciated the seriousness of the situation and then had become frightened to go to
the farm alone."

I think that is highly likely.

[APRIL]

https://murderpedia.org/male.B/images/bamber_jeremy/20011745.pdf  Page 25.

vii) The appellant’s account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be
false for the following reasons:
a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;
b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;
c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police
before the appellant;
d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately
made a 999 call, alerted the farmworkers who lived close to the farmhouse
and then driven at speed to his parents home; and
e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he
subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency
system."

The girls at the flat seemed to recall the call by Jeremy was nearer 3:00 AM rather than 3:30.  Jeremy called the Police at 3:30 so it wasn't that much delay as they make out.

It is an odd situation to be in, to be requested to come to a house where someone has gone crazy with a gun.  Jeremy could have felt he was being set-up and someone was planning to shoot him as well.   I too would let the police lead the break in to the farm house.

I think you'll find that "the girls at the flat" couldn't reconcile over the timing of the call. There was something about one clock being 10 minutes fast along with the usual differences raised by several people sleeping in several separate rooms. If the call DID occur at 3am, it occurred before the alleged call from Nevill to Jeremy, and approximately 20 minutes prior to Jeremy calling the police.

I agree the situation isn't a daily one for British police. Even more for those policing the depths of rural Essex. I'd have been happy to allow them to do the job they'd been trained for. The responsibility no longer being mine.

[Robittybob1]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=287.msg4965#msg4965  Julie Mugford's statement.