First Forensic Examination Of The Silencer - 13th Aug '85

[Holly Goodhead]

He wasn't that obese, but CVs are notorious for rolling on corners, though they are pretty...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV#/media/File:Citroen_2CV_1X7A7979.jpg

So are Reliant Robins!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I prefer the Porsche kit car JB had his eye on!

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1015.msg29645#msg29645

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1015.msg29647#msg29647

I could see him roaring around the Essex countryside with Angie by his side complete with his n her Ray-Bans 

Ironically he might even have had the silencer tweaked to make it sound more throaty! 

[Brancher]

That Famous Grouse bottle must have been emptied twenty times over from the number of times you've mentioned it, so I'm surprised Stan made it back home in one piece in his Citroen 2CV.

If it was an indiscretion by Jeremy Bamber, we'd never hear the last of it.  Whole threads on here would probably be devoted to how Jeremy had a drinking problem and Peter Eaton swears blind that Jeremy downed the whole bottle.  Drinking on duty, while driving, and while collecting a key exhibit, is a very serious lapse that could have jeopardised the whole case.

Unless of course Peter Eaton is lying or exaggerating?

Would Peter Eaton be prone to lying and exaggerating about things?

[Caroline]

So are Reliant Robins!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I prefer the Porsche kit car JB had his eye on!

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1015.msg29645#msg29645

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1015.msg29647#msg29647

I could see him roaring around the Essex countryside with Angie by his side complete with his n her Ray-Bans 

Ironically he might even have had the silencer tweaked to make it sound more throaty!

He didn't have his eye on a kit car 

[Holly Goodhead]

As evidenced by the w/s's of AE and DB neither made reference to a grey hair attached to the silencer which apparently was lost en route when DI Cook transported it to the lab.  Despite the fact it wasn't seen by anyone at the lab let alone defence experts/lawyers it didn't prevent the prosecution speculating about it at trial to the point the trial judge even mentioned it in his summing up to the jury.

[Holly Goodhead]

He didn't have his eye on a kit car 

He did costing some 2k like the one in the image.

[Holly Goodhead]

If it was an indiscretion by Jeremy Bamber, we'd never hear the last of it.  Whole threads on here would probably be devoted to how Jeremy had a drinking problem and Peter Eaton swears blind that Jeremy downed the whole bottle.  Drinking on duty, while driving, and while collecting a key exhibit, is a very serious lapse that could have jeopardised the whole case.

Unless of course Peter Eaton is lying or exaggerating?

Would Peter Eaton be prone to lying and exaggerating about things?

An indiscretion implies a one-off which it wasn't.  DS Jones consumed alcohol at JB's on 7th Aug; on 13th Aug when he collected the silencer from the Eatons and again at the Eatons on 14th Aug when he popped round with DI's Cook and Miller having taken a paint sample from the Aga surround at WHF.

The above are obviously the occasions we know about. 

[Aunt Agatha]

sorry to impose on this chat.

I've just been over to the blue looking for any electrical maps of the house.

Can anybody help please?

Thanks

[Brietta]

From what I have read the blood found in the silencer was Sheila Caffell's blood and the only way it could have been found there was if the silencer was on the rifle and in close proximity to her when she was shot.

[Caroline]

He did costing some 2k like the one in the image.

Don't believe it Holly, he wanted a Porsche but not a kit version.

[Holly Goodhead]

sorry to impose on this chat.

I've just been over to the blue looking for any electrical maps of the house.

Can anybody help please?

Thanks

Sorry no idea.  If anyone knows it sounds like the sort of thing Myster might be offay with.

[APRIL]

If it was an indiscretion by Jeremy Bamber, we'd never hear the last of it.  Whole threads on here would probably be devoted to how Jeremy had a drinking problem and Peter Eaton swears blind that Jeremy downed the whole bottle.  Drinking on duty, while driving, and while collecting a key exhibit, is a very serious lapse that could have jeopardised the whole case.

Unless of course Peter Eaton is lying or exaggerating?

Would Peter Eaton be prone to lying and exaggerating about things?

Certainly, much would be made of it now, but back in the 80's? One of the local pubs in my village became HQ to police investigating another murder in the area around the same time. I'm told many of them didn't know which way was up when they left

[Myster]

sorry to impose on this chat.

I've just been over to the blue looking for any electrical maps of the house.

Can anybody help please?

Thanks

Unusual request... haven't seen any, but what do want to know?  Busy putting a grocery order in now, so if I can answer a specific question I'll reply later, unless someone else contributes in the mean time.

[Holly Goodhead]

From what I have read the blood found in the silencer was Sheila Caffell's blood and the only way it could have been found there was if the silencer was on the rifle and in close proximity to her when she was shot.

The type of tests carried out mid 80's were not statistically individualising.  At the time about 8% of the white British population shared the same blood groups.

You said on the other thread the defence expert (Dr Patrick Lincoln) observed visible blood staining on the inside of the silencer but that's not actually correct:

[Caroline]

DI Cook testified at trial that he observed the single grey hair attached which was lost in transit to the lab.  And yet neither AE nor DB mention the hair in their w/s's.

The hair could have come from anywhere and may not have even been on the  silencer when found. It could have been a dog hair or a hair that was picked up  when stored at AE's house. It fell off - so   what?

[Holly Goodhead]

From what I have read the blood found in the silencer was Sheila Caffell's blood and the only way it could have been found there was if the silencer was on the rifle and in close proximity to her when she was shot.

Just to clarify the mechanism whereby blood enters a muzzle from a contact gunshot wound is known as 'drawback' sometimes referred to as 'blowback'.  This is different from blood entering a muzzle from a non-contact gunshot wound where the blood is in free flight.

Forensic scientists, ballistics and pathologists seem to agree when drawback does occur it involves the following:

- Large calibre firearms (small calibre used at WHF. 22)

- High velocity ammo (low velocity ammo used at WHF subsonic)

- Head wounds (SC's wounds were to the neck)

- Blood usually contains tissue and bone fragments (No evidence the blood supposedly found inside the silencer contained tissue or bone).

- Any devices fitted to muzzles eg silencer will alter the outcome making it less likely still as it changes the whole mechanism of how scientists believe the phenomenon works ie unsilenced hot discharge gasses blast out the end of the muzzle into the wound creating a vacuum which causes blood to travel against the line of fire back into the muzzle.  With a silencer fitted the hot discharge gases enter an expansion chamber where they cool and release slowly through a series of baffle plates.

- No cases, tests or research anywhere involving blood entering a silencer as a result of 'drawback'.