New German suspect in Madeleine McCann mystery disappearance.

[Mr Gray]

More like a Magistrates Court, except that English Magistrates don't question The Accused.  And nor do The Crown Prosecution Service.

breukner hasn't been accused of anything... That's the whole point... He's a suspect... That's all

[Mr Gray]

The police gather the evidence, but they don't decide if there's a case to prosecute. In England the CPS decide by examining the evidence. In other countries the decision is ultimately taken by a magistrate and in addition to looking at the evidence a hearing is held when the witnesses and accused can be questioned.

That's precisely the point I've made.  The initial questioning is carried out by the police not a judge or magistrate

[barrier]

The question is, who instigated the line that this German is maybe of interest ?

[Mr Gray]

The question is, who instigated the line that this German is maybe of interest ?

And on precisely what basis has he been mace a suspect

[Eleanor]

Thanks Eleanor.  All this is nipping my head.

What I am appreciating about this is that (a) the newspapers are reporting rubbish ... and (b) their readers are latching onto this and being quite critical about it all.
But most of all the primacy of "Innocent 'till Proven Guilty" has finally been recognised even in relation to a criminal already found guilty of heinous crimes.

What a tragedy all this seems to have been overlooked thirteen years ago and day and daily ever since in relation to innocent people who unlike Herr Bruekner have had their right to the Presumption of Innocence trampled in the dust.

Yes.  But it was bound to happen.  We just didn't know when.  And so it has been a slightly hard road sometimes.

Best now that we all stick to what we have always believed in, which undoubtedly we will.

[Eleanor]

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal construct. Thankfully the law doesn’t stop you from having an opinion.

Genuine question....do you still think the German police have their finger on the pulse of what happened to Madeleine?

Sorry for interrupting.  Not a chance.  This is all about a possibly incorrect Extradition on another Charge that then gave The Germans some misbegotten right.

This won't do.

[Eleanor]

We know for a fact Breukner does not have to answer any questions

Absolutely Correct.  Whatever the system.

[Eleanor]

I said according to many there is little prospect of a trial.. I'm the one who is saying we don't know. 
Breukner had no reason to answer any questions and may simply exercise his right to silence

You are right about that.  But please don't give Gertrude a hard time when he was only trying to explain the differences between Adversarial and Inquisitorial Law.  Which I appear to know a bit more about than you do.

God forbid, who needs it?

[Eleanor]

breukner hasn't been accused of anything... That's the whole point... He's a suspect... That's all

Some of us do know this.  To me, the whole discussion has been about Bruckner's Right to Innocence.  With which I concur.

[Eleanor]

The question is, who instigated the line that this German is maybe of interest ?

The Germans.  And they've got him.  I wouldn't say much for Bruckner's chances of getting out anytime soon. 

Nor would I say much for the chances of convicting him on The Abduction of Madeleine Mccann.

[Wonderfulspam]

The Germans.  And they've got him.  I wouldn't say much for Bruckner's chances of getting out anytime soon. 

Nor would I say much for the chances of convicting him on The Abduction of Madeleine Mccann.

I agree.

It will be pretty difficult to charge him for something that didn't happen.

[Mr Gray]

You are right about that.  But please don't give Gertrude a hard time when he was only trying to explain the differences between Adversarial and Inquisitorial Law.  Which I appear to know a bit more about than you do.

God forbid, who needs it?

If Gertrude wants to tell me I don't understand things and if I disagree with her point I'm just being silly... Then I need to explain to her what my opinion is based on. I don't think you do know more about it than I do... It's not rocket science

[barrier]

The Germans.  And they've got him.  I wouldn't say much for Bruckner's chances of getting out anytime soon. 

Nor would I say much for the chances of convicting him on The Abduction of Madeleine Mccann.

Ok so they've got him, they surely just didn't throw Madeleine's name in the mix and thought hey up he's ours.

[Mr Gray]

I have never backtracked. The pre-trial phase can still be the suspects first interrogation, I have never said otherwise. You have been insisting the judge can't play a role in the investigation, which I've been trying to show you is wrong.

Speaking of backtracking; this is you a few pages back

''the Judge examines the evidence and decides if it goes to trail but does not get involved in building the case...and questioning witnesses and suspects.'
 
In reality.....

'Judges play a more active role in criminal proceedings, according to the principle of official investigation (section 244, German Code of Penal Process (Strafprozessordnung)). Judges interrogate the accused, call and interrogate witnesses and examine other evidence'

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-007-7132?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&bhcp=1

I actually think you are making things up as you go along. I don't see any situation where a judge would be the first person to question a suspect...thats ridiculous

I have never said  a judge doesnt paly arole in the investigation...just that the suspect would be questioned by the police first.

What you are doing is raeding and quoting factual imnformation...then putting your own intepretation on it and thinking that is fact too.

i dont think you understand what is meant by pretrial....We are nowhere near the pretrial phase in this investigation....it hasnt even been decided there will be  a trial.

[Eleanor]

I agree.

It will be pretty difficult to charge him for something that didn't happen.

For God's sake could you say something sensible for a change?  Probably not.  Who cares anyway.