Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?

[faithlilly]

Is it truly possible, as we are lead to believe, that the story of the broken, jemmied shutters was a collective misunderstanding by at least four of the McCann's family and friends who had no contact with each other ?

[debunker]

Is it truly possible, as we are lead to believe, that the story of the broken, jemmied shutters was a collective misunderstanding by at least four of the McCann's family and friends who had no contact with each other ?

PLease provide quotes from primary sources to advance your case.

[faithlilly]

Is it truly possible, as we are lead to believe, that the story of the broken, jemmied shutters was a collective misunderstanding by at least four of the McCann's family and friends who had no contact with each other ?

PLease provide quotes from primary sources to advance your case.

I'm sure after six years you are fully aware of the primary source evidence available. At least four separate individuals told the media, both in interviews and in print form, that they had been told be the McCanns that the shutters had been broken, jemmied or forced and in several instances that the door had been left hanging open.

[debunker]

Is it truly possible, as we are lead to believe, that the story of the broken, jemmied shutters was a collective misunderstanding by at least four of the McCann's family and friends who had no contact with each other ?

PLease provide quotes from primary sources to advance your case.

I'm sure after six years you are fully aware of the primary source evidence available. At least four separate individuals told the media, both in interviews and in print form, that they had been told be the McCanns that the shutters had been broken, jemmied or forced and in
several instances that the door had been left hanging open.

I doubt your account for good reason. Please provide cites for these supposed statements.

[faithlilly]

Is this what you feel passes for debate ? Asking me to provide quotes that you yourself are obviously already aware of ? Please rebut my assertion by all means but don't employ delaying tactics and pretend it's debate.

[gilet]

Is this what you feel passes for debate ? Asking me to provide quotes that you yourself are obviously already aware of ? Please rebut my assertion by all means but don't employ delaying tactics and pretend it's debate.

Actually that is the normal way of debating something. A person makes a claim as you have done, they then back that claim up with evidence and the debate continues from that point. I am shocked you don't understand even the most basic tenets of debate.

Oh....

And....

If you had bothered to look at the FORUM RULES you would find that it is part of the agreement of being a member here that you back up what you say with evidence.

"The rules of this forum are very straightforward.  Please treat all members with respect, avoid speculation and ensure that any material posted is accompanied by the relevant links."

As they seem to have slipped your attention the rules are here.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4.msg4#msg4

Now who are those four people and where are your links to what they said?

[gilet]

Is it truly possible, as we are lead to believe, that the story of the broken, jemmied shutters was a collective misunderstanding by at least four of the McCann's family and friends who had no contact with each other ?

This is what I think happened -

When the McCanns first discovered MAdeleine gone and the shutters & window opened they reasonably assumed (as I would) that they had been broken into and their child taken.   In order to break into a room with shuttered windows it is also (IMO) reasonable to assume (especially if these are shutters belonging to a property that you do not own or are responsible for the maintenance of) that some force was used to lift the shutters. 

That is why when the McCanns FIRST spoke to their friends and family they exclaimed that Madeleine's room had been broken into, the shutters forces open (or jemmied) and the child taken.

Now, which part of that sounds unreasonable to you?  Let me guess - all of it!

My understanding of the situation is the same. Though any people who may have reported such a thing about the windows may not have had direct contact between each other, they almost certainly had direct contact with Gerry or Kate on the phone or by text.

But of course none of this can be examined till Faithlilly provides us with the names and the links to what precisely was said by these people.

Further debate is pointless till that occurs as we do not even know who she is referring to or what exactly they are supposed to have said.

I am sure she will provide the names and links and then debate can continue.

[faithlilly]

@ Martha

The only problem with your theory is by the time the McCanns told their family/friends that the windows had been broken/jemmied Gerry had already, we are told, found that the shutters were easy to open from the outside and there was no need to force them.

[debunker]

@ Martha

The only problem with your theory is by the time the McCanns told their family/friends that the windows had been broken/jemmied Gerry had already, we are told, found that the shutters were easy to open from the outside and there was no need to force them.

Cite?

[Eleanor]

Is it truly possible, as we are lead to believe, that the story of the broken, jemmied shutters was a collective misunderstanding by at least four of the McCann's family and friends who had no contact with each other ?

This is what I think happened -

When the McCanns first discovered MAdeleine gone and the shutters & window opened they reasonably assumed (as I would) that they had been broken into and their child taken.   In order to break into a room with shuttered windows it is also (IMO) reasonable to assume (especially if these are shutters belonging to a property that you do not own or are responsible for the maintenance of) that some force was used to lift the shutters. 

That is why when the McCanns FIRST spoke to their friends and family they exclaimed that Madeleine's room had been broken into, the shutters forces open (or jemmied) and the child taken.

Now, which part of that sounds unreasonable to you?  Let me guess - all of it!

They know very well that what you say is a reasonable assumption.  And it was all very much second and third hand quotes at a time of total panic.  And of course, we now know that the shutters can be lifted from outside, courtesy of PeterMac who we saw doing just that. 
No one knows if the window was locked.

It is the sort of assumption that I could well have made.

[faithlilly]

@ gilet

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id31.html

[gilet]

@ Martha

The only problem with your theory is by the time the McCanns told their family/friends that the windows had been broken/jemmied Gerry had already, we are told, found that the shutters were easy to open from the outside and there was no need to force them.

Who are these family/friends who you are referring to? Please provide links to what they said and when they said it so that a proper discussion can follow.

[Heriberto Janosch]

Imo if the glass panes were closed but not locked, it is easy to open the window from the outside without damaging it. See ...

http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2013/04/could-madeleine-mccann-be-abducted-in.html

http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2012/10/the-abduction-of-madeleine-mccann-report.html

Heri.

[debunker]

Is this what you feel passes for debate ? Asking me to provide quotes that you yourself are obviously already aware of ? Please rebut my assertion by all means but don't employ delaying tactics and pretend it's debate.

YEs, it is your misunderstanding.

IF youmake an assertion, you should backit up with evidence.

IF you do not do that, then be prepared to be called out on the issue

[gilet]

@ gilet

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id31.html

Sorry that is a link to a general page. Please specify who you are talking about (name them so I can at least look for specific individuals on the page).