Author Topic: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?  (Read 29474 times)

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Offline gilet

Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2013, 04:07:32 PM »
Interesting.

Mrs Jill Renwick the first of the people you named doesn't even used the word 'jemmied'.

She simply reports that the windows had been forced open.

Ms Renwick said: "Poor Kate and Gerry don't know where to turn. She's obviously been taken as she couldn't have gone out on her own and the shutters had been forced open."

"The shutters had been broken open and they've gone into the room and taken her."


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id31.html

Now to see what the others said.


Offline gilet

Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2013, 04:12:00 PM »
Oddly Jon Corner doesn't use the word 'jemmied' either.

Jon Corner, founder of Liverpool-based River Media, is godfather to the McCann’s twins and his wife has known Mrs McCann since they were both three.

The co-founder of city centre-based River Media, and a father-of-three himself, said: “Kate phoned me in the early hours totally devastated .

“She just told me that Maddy had been abducted, that the shutters of the apartment had been forced and someone had taken her.


http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/breaking-news/tm_method=full&objectid=19051729&siteid=50061-name_page.html#ixzz2Pn4c86lU

So far no-one has used the word jemmied. They've simply said that the windows were forced open which they were according to the witnesses.

Nothing suspicious so far that I can see at all.

Gerry or Kate simply informed these people individually of the facts as they saw them.



Offline Eleanor

Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2013, 04:19:31 PM »
"Jemmied" is a Glaswegian phrase for "Forced Open".  It doesn't have to be done by a metal bar.  I suspect that Philomena used this expression, although I find no fault with her for having done so.
But I don't really understand why this is a cause for contention.  It is irrelevant to what might have happened.

Offline gilet

Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2013, 04:23:10 PM »
Aha. The first mention of the word "jemmied".

"Mark Warner, the holiday firm which runs the luxury resort, claimed last night there was no sign of a break in at the ground floor apartment overlooking the sea. But Brian Healy, Madeleine's maternal grandfather, told the Guardian his son-in-law had phoned him shortly after returning to the apartment from a nearby restaurant to find Madeleine had disappeared.

"Gerry told me when they went back the shutters to the room were broken, they were jemmied up and she was gone," said Mr Healy. "She'd been taken from the chalet. The door was open.""


Still nothing suspicious to me. It is perfectly natural to think that the shutters had been broken and forced/jemmied if up till that time you had been relying on the indoor opening and closing mechanism or if you had not been opening them at all. They had after all been opened against without the use of the proper mechanism. They had effectively been forced no matter how easy it was found to be. 

Sometimes when forcing doors police have to use battering rams. Other times (as I know from having opened an elderly neighbour's door when she locked herself out, it took little more than a push. Her Yale lock had been secured by only two tiny screws. Since then she has improved security of course.)

As for Mark Warner having said there was no sign of a break in. Perhaps there wasn't by the time they came to look. If Gerry, as Kate says in her book, went out immediately to check the shutter then he very possibly did not leave it in a position which MW staff later thought showed a break in.


Offline gilet

Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2013, 04:36:13 PM »
And yes, Trish Cameron used the word jemmied.

Ms Cameron, who is Mr McCann's sister, says the family is now going through hell.

She said: `My brother and sister-in-law are absolutely distraught.

`They last checked at half past nine and they were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut.

`Kate went back at ten o'clock to check. The front door was lying open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jemmied open and Madeleine was missing. She's an absolutely beautiful, wee blonde girl with blue-green eyes. She is a gorgeous wee girl.`


http://www.dumbartonreporter.co.uk/articles/1/11258

Seems to me that she is simply reporting what she was told by Gerry.

He saw the shutters had been opened when he thought they had been fastened from the inside and he described that as being 'jemmied'. Kate when speaking to Jon Corner for example used the word 'forced'.

I can't see the issue. When something is opened without the normal opening mechanism being used I would describe it as being forced open. If you open a door without a key then you force it or jemmy it, same with shutters or windows.




Offline gilet

Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2013, 04:38:36 PM »
I have never understood Anti McCanns' obsession with the 'jemmied' shutters.  Am I right in assuming you guys believe jemmied means broken open with a crow bar or something like that?

[ censored word], please explain your obsession.  Do you think the McCanns decided to stage an abduction, told everyone the shutters had been jemmied but actually forgot to jemmy them beforehand?  Do you think the McCanns decided to tell everyone they'd been jemmied even though they knew they hadn't and that they were too stupid to realise that the police would be along minutes later to confirm that they hadn't actually been jemmied?

What's the theory here?

I agree absolutely. I cannot see the point of this thread at all.

Gerry and Kate phoned their friends and using slightly different phrasing described the scene they found of windows having been opened from the outside when they believed they were locked from the inside. Forced or jemmied, both words seem to reflect the situation accurately to me.

And the notion that there would have to be contact between tbe individuals in the UK reporting this is ludicrous. Why? They were told individually by Gerry or Kate.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2013, 07:13:57 PM »
@ gilet

In my first post I also used the word broken. Perhaps you can give us a rundown of how many times the family/friends used that word too ?

It is obvious from the statements that the details of the scenario described by each individual was given to them directly in a phone call by either Kate or Gerry and was not something they were told second hand. That each was told the same story with the same glaring untruth is worthy of debate. Whether you think so or not matters not a jot.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2013, 07:19:02 PM »
@ gilet

In my first post I also used the word broken. Perhaps you can give us a rundown of how many times the family/friends used that word too ?

It is obvious from the statements that the details of the scenario described by each individual was given to them directly in a phone call by either Kate or Gerry and was not something they were told second hand. That each was told the same story with the same glaring untruth is worthy of debate. Whether you think so or not matters not a jot.

YOu are speculating again.

amaraltheofficeboy

  • Guest
Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2013, 09:10:01 PM »
God I have had the misfortune to read some boring irrelevant threads in my life but this is taking the biscuit.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2013, 09:12:39 PM »
God I have had the misfortune to read some boring irrelevant threads in my life but this is taking the biscuit.

Are you a WUM?

amaraltheofficeboy

  • Guest
Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2013, 09:15:02 PM »
God I have had the misfortune to read some boring irrelevant threads in my life but this is taking the biscuit.

Are you a WUM?

probably - it sounds that way doesn't it

It's like overhearing someone else's conversation in a pub and can't believe it!

Offline gilet

Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2013, 09:39:36 PM »
@ gilet

In my first post I also used the word broken. Perhaps you can give us a rundown of how many times the family/friends used that word too ?

It is obvious from the statements that the details of the scenario described by each individual was given to them directly in a phone call by either Kate or Gerry and was not something they were told second hand. That each was told the same story with the same glaring untruth is worthy of debate. Whether you think so or not matters not a jot.

What untruth?

I am not aware of any untruth?

I am aware that of the four people you mentioned, two use the word broken.

One, Jill,  used the term "broken open" which is another way of saying jemmied/forced.

And another used the term broken, the elderly Mr. Healy.

Perhaps his daughter had used the phrase "broken open" when talking to both him and her friend Jill and he had foreshortened it in his highly pressured response to the journalist.

The other two did not use the term broken.

So your problem seems to be that Gerry when phoning his friends didn't change his story at all and  that these people remembered what had been said to them and repeated it to the press.

And Kate didn't change the story at all and that her contacts remembered more or less the same thing and told it to the press.

I really am at a total loss to see what you are getting at.

o summarise my position in this debate.

Gerry and Kate phoned their friends and told them what they honestly believed had happened to the shutters.

They believed they had been forced/broken open/jemmied.

They believed this because the shutters had been closed when they left and were open when they got home.

Then the friends who they had told repeated the same story to the press.


Where is the problem that you are apparently finding in all this?
What is the issue?
It is perfectly simple.

And why after three pages of debate are you very stupidly proclaiming that nobody thinks it matters and it is worthy of debate is quite beyond me unless you are playing a silly game.

amaraltheofficeboy

  • Guest
Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2013, 09:45:48 PM »
this won't be answered but what difference do jemmied or not windows make to a missing child?

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2013, 07:07:02 AM »
I do think my quote above where Kate says that the shtters had not been open or opened all week. It is reasonable to asume that such shutters are normally locked from the inside. When they are suddenly found to be completely open, it would be natural to assume that they had been forced.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2013, 11:41:16 AM »
I do think my quote above where Kate says that the shtters had not been open or opened all week. It is reasonable to asume that such shutters are normally locked from the inside. When they are suddenly found to be completely open, it would be natural to assume that they had been forced.


I would agree that if Gerry hadn't found that the shutters opened easily from the outside, it would be safe to assume they'd been forced. But Kate makes it clear in the quote I have posted from her book that they didn't suspect they'd been forced but were simply not as secure, as they had first thought.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?