Author Topic: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007  (Read 43296 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Brietta

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #75 on: April 08, 2016, 02:28:57 AM »
He's the market trader put under surveillance fro a few months by Halligen's team - nicknamed George because of his vague resemblance to George Harrison. It was reported on in the Documentary about Halligen.
https://www.my5.tv/movie/92070

Thanks Misty.

Not going to revisit the Halligen video at the moment ... but was that not something to do with a very unprofessionally conducted interview with Jane which was so bad it was unusable?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #76 on: April 08, 2016, 02:32:05 AM »
Thanks Misty.

Not going to revisit the Halligen video at the moment ... but was that not something to do with a very unprofessionally conducted interview with Jane which was so bad it was unusable?

LOL, yes. Amongst other things, I believe an "expert" voice analyst decreed JT was untruthful.

Offline Brietta

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #77 on: April 08, 2016, 02:35:28 AM »
Jane Tanner is a witness -- a witness to a few things.  First, she saw Gerry McCann at the gate of 5A.  At the same time, she saw Jeremy Wilkins.  And third, she saw a man who has now been identified and ruled out.

The only thing Jane Tanner should have done differently is -- when she gave her statement, to have talked ONLY about what she saw, and not about what others allegedly saw or did.  Apart from that, what is there to criticise?

A lot of people have said disparaging things about Jane.  For example, there are those who question how her memory became progressively better.  There are those who ask questions about her conduct during the Robert Murat ID appointment and the subsequent rotatory interview exploring that.  There are those who believe she wrongly identified 'George' as the man she saw to the private investigators (ruled out later).  And there is the voice analysis expert who analysed her vocal replies during her interview with private detectives, and believed her not to be a credible witness.

But I'm not criticising her for any of that.  Thanks for the question.

You say ... "A lot of people have said disparaging things about Jane.  For example, there are those who question how her memory became progressively better. "

In what way did her memory become progressively better?

Just as I had no idea who "George" was without a cite.  I have no idea to what you are referring as regards Jane Tanner's memory.
Might be a courtesy to provide a cite to back up your statement.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #78 on: April 08, 2016, 02:39:11 AM »
LOL, yes. Amongst other things, I believe an "expert" voice analyst decreed JT was untruthful.

Lord preserve us from body language 'experts' and 'expert' voice analysts not to mention 'expert' profilers.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #79 on: April 08, 2016, 02:49:38 AM »
Jane Tanner is a witness -- a witness to a few things.  First, she saw Gerry McCann at the gate of 5A.  At the same time, she saw Jeremy Wilkins.  And third, she saw a man who has now been identified and ruled out.

The only thing Jane Tanner should have done differently is -- when she gave her statement, to have talked ONLY about what she saw, and not about what others allegedly saw or did.  Apart from that, what is there to criticise?

A lot of people have said disparaging things about Jane.  For example, there are those who question how her memory became progressively better.  There are those who ask questions about her conduct during the Robert Murat ID appointment and the subsequent rotatory interview exploring that.  There are those who believe she wrongly identified 'George' as the man she saw to the private investigators (ruled out later).  And there is the voice analysis expert who analysed her vocal replies during her interview with private detectives, and believed her not to be a credible witness.

But I'm not criticising her for any of that.  Thanks for the question.

It is interesting that you raise the issue of ... "There are those who ask questions about her conduct during the Robert Murat ID appointment and the subsequent rotatory interview exploring that."

What exactly is your take on the concerns of "those who ask questions" about the setting up of Robert Murat's ID solo parade?

Have you any idea at all what their questions may consist of?

I ask only because your mentioning of it would suggest it holds a particular interest for you.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #80 on: April 08, 2016, 12:05:49 PM »
Tannerman being blamed. That man is innocent and cleared by SY. This proves why he is still on the McCanns site. Smithman gets away and Patsy gets the blame.

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #81 on: April 08, 2016, 12:29:50 PM »
Lord preserve us from body language 'experts' and 'expert' voice analysts not to mention 'expert' profilers.

Would that remark encompass Dr Sharon Leal ?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Gadfly1.3

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #82 on: April 08, 2016, 07:34:42 PM »
You say ... "A lot of people have said disparaging things about Jane.  For example, there are those who question how her memory became progressively better. "

In what way did her memory become progressively better?

Just as I had no idea who "George" was without a cite.  I have no idea to what you are referring as regards Jane Tanner's memory.
Might be a courtesy to provide a cite to back up your statement.


Hi Brietta -- I'll respond to another point of yours.  You asked, what is the evidence for Jane Tanner's memory becoming progressively better.

This was the e-fit she produced after her initial interview.  She later said in her rotatory:

"4078    “I know this seems like an obvious question, which I think I know the answer to, because I’ve seen the artist’s impression, did you see the man’s face?”
Reply    “No, no, not, no, I mean, just the hair, well not, not that I could remember to give details.”.
Cite: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm

That is entirely consistent with the e-fit she produced at first (below), and even the later e-fit.  It also ties in with her initial statement, so all is fine there.



BUT....

If in her initial interview, she was adamant she could not see a face.  And if in a later e-fit, she confirmed that she couldn't see the face again... why did she then make a positive ID from a facial pic?



Her memory improved to the extent that she was secretly recorded identifying a man -- from a facial shot -- with the language "that is the man that I saw carrying the child."  -- confirmed by Tim-Craig Harvey, who was paid by the McCanns to coordinate the private investigation.  A voice analyst, also paid by the McCanns also noted with regard to her memory: 'the more she had to describe him, the more accurate she became.'

Cite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vphKz-Xjbn0 (From 15 minutes exactly to 16.15).

So to sum
May 2007 -- initially after Madeleine was removed from 5A -- no ability to recognise a face.
During the private investigation -- secretly recorded identifying a man as the man she saw via his face.

--

I'll end on this note. Jane Tanner said during her rotatory interview that: "the best thing that could happen to me, apart from Madeleine being found, is somebody coming up and saying ‘That was me’, you know, ‘That was me walking across there." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Scotland Yard did find that man.  He did come forward.  Everything about him tied in with Jane said - so she can relax about that now.  SY know she didn't obstruct the course of justice or anything like that. Her eye-witness account can now be corroborated, so we should thank her for being so alert that night.  They know the child wasn't Madeleine.  So Jane simply becomes a witness to the other thing she saw -- Gerry and Jeremy's conversation.  Near the gate of 5A.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 07:50:22 PM by Gadfly1.3 »
--
On 12 May 2011 the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) announced that, at the request of the Home Secretary, it had agreed to bring its particular expertise to the Madeleine McCann case.

The then Commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, considered the request and took the decision that on balance it was the right thing to do. This was subject to funding being made available by the Home Office, as this case is beyond the MPS's jurisdiction.  The Portuguese authorities retain the lead.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #83 on: April 08, 2016, 07:59:51 PM »
Only when she was told Madeleine was missing did she relate the man and child she had seen to the abduction.  She did not know at the time she saw them ... if she had, why would she not have shouted for assistance from the two men she had just passed?

Indeed, that is what I said! why did she not say at the time of finding out Maddie was missing- she waited a very long time-until the police came to mention it. Why waste precious time keeping that to herself, they were searching for a missing child not a man carrying a  child, she could have told someone if she thought it was a child being abducted to which she later confirmed it was a man abducting Maddie whom she saw. a main witness to an abduction. Well she WAS. not any more.
 
What she saw was a man carrying a child not an 'abductor carrying Maddie' talk about a wild goose chase. None of this makes any sense at all.

And those of us who refused to believe she saw Maddie being abducted were proved correct not to buy that story.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Brietta

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #84 on: April 08, 2016, 10:16:00 PM »
Indeed, that is what I said! why did she not say at the time of finding out Maddie was missing- she waited a very long time-until the police came to mention it. Why waste precious time keeping that to herself, they were searching for a missing child not a man carrying a  child, she could have told someone if she thought it was a child being abducted to which she later confirmed it was a man abducting Maddie whom she saw. a main witness to an abduction. Well she WAS. not any more.
 
What she saw was a man carrying a child not an 'abductor carrying Maddie' talk about a wild goose chase. None of this makes any sense at all.

And those of us who refused to believe she saw Maddie being abducted were proved correct not to buy that story.

You will have a cite for "why did she not say at the time of finding out Maddie was missing- she waited a very long time-until the police came to mention it."

Thankyou
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #85 on: April 09, 2016, 12:01:22 AM »

Hi Brietta -- I'll respond to another point of yours.  You asked, what is the evidence for Jane Tanner's memory becoming progressively better.

This was the e-fit she produced after her initial interview.  She later said in her rotatory:

"4078    “I know this seems like an obvious question, which I think I know the answer to, because I’ve seen the artist’s impression, did you see the man’s face?”
Reply    “No, no, not, no, I mean, just the hair, well not, not that I could remember to give details.”.
Cite: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm

That is entirely consistent with the e-fit she produced at first (below), and even the later e-fit.  It also ties in with her initial statement, so all is fine there.



BUT....

If in her initial interview, she was adamant she could not see a face.  And if in a later e-fit, she confirmed that she couldn't see the face again... why did she then make a positive ID from a facial pic?



Her memory improved to the extent that she was secretly recorded identifying a man -- from a facial shot -- with the language "that is the man that I saw carrying the child."  -- confirmed by Tim-Craig Harvey, who was paid by the McCanns to coordinate the private investigation.  A voice analyst, also paid by the McCanns also noted with regard to her memory: 'the more she had to describe him, the more accurate she became.'

Cite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vphKz-Xjbn0 (From 15 minutes exactly to 16.15).

So to sum
May 2007 -- initially after Madeleine was removed from 5A -- no ability to recognise a face.
During the private investigation -- secretly recorded identifying a man as the man she saw via his face.

--

I'll end on this note. Jane Tanner said during her rotatory interview that: "the best thing that could happen to me, apart from Madeleine being found, is somebody coming up and saying ‘That was me’, you know, ‘That was me walking across there." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Scotland Yard did find that man.  He did come forward.  Everything about him tied in with Jane said - so she can relax about that now.  SY know she didn't obstruct the course of justice or anything like that. Her eye-witness account can now be corroborated, so we should thank her for being so alert that night.  They know the child wasn't Madeleine.  So Jane simply becomes a witness to the other thing she saw -- Gerry and Jeremy's conversation.  Near the gate of 5A.

Jane Tanner was consistent and concise in each witness statement she provided.

The illustration is of the man she saw and the clothes he was wearing ... and as can be gleaned from the rogatory statement, the Portuguese were unable to assist at the time.


 ... but I think I’d prefer just to stick with what I said in my original statement, in terms of the, because even, I mean, this is coming back to the sketch, even when I did the sketch, by that stage, you know, things were, were murky,I needed to that sketch that first night, I mean, they took me in to do the sketch, but they only had, erm, front facing software, so you know, and at that point I said, you know, is there, can I do, because the clothes and everything was the thing was the thing that was the most in my mind then and I can remember saying to the chap I met on the stairs earlier, I think it’s (inaudible), is it?”
4078    “Yeah”.
Reply    “Because he took me in the car back and forth and I can remember saying to him on the way back ‘Look, is there a way I can do a sketch with clothes, you know, do you have software or any way that I can do a sketch of the clothes or a side, a side view’.  And he sort of said ‘No, we don’t have that feasible, you know, feasibility or availability’.  And I said then ‘Can I do that when I go back to the UK’, you know, because at that point it was in my head and it would have been, and they were the bits that I think would have been recognisable to get down on paper.  But at that point it was like ‘Oh no, we can’t do that, we don’t work in that way’. Which I can understand and, you know, now obviously I think ‘Oh I should have pushed and really pushed’, but at that point you rely on, you don’t, you know, you’re just in such shock and you just think ‘Okay that’s the way things do’, but”.
4078    “Yeah”.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm



I think you are mistaken when you state ...  "Her memory improved to the extent that she was secretly recorded identifying a man -- from a facial shot -- with the language "that is the man that I saw carrying the child."
Cite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vphKz-Xjbn0 (From 15 minutes exactly to 16.15)

I heard a man saying " she was then presented with a photograph of this guy George in a market at which point she broke down and said "that is the guy that I saw carrying the child."

I did not hear Jane Tanner saying it nor have I found confirmation elsewhere that she did although it is possible she may have recognised a profile ... do you have a definite cite as the youtube video definitely won't do.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Gadfly1.3

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #86 on: April 09, 2016, 12:36:24 AM »
Do you have a cite?

Tim Craig-Harvey, who expressed his sympathy for the McCanns, was paid indirectly by the McCanns to organise the private investigation, and then later spoke out in a nationally-aired television documentary The McCanns And The Con Man -- stating he heard Jane Tanner say those very words.  The YouTube video is that documentary that is also available via an official source at: http://www.channel5.com/show/the-man-who-conned-the-mccanns

Just to sum-up.
1) The man Jane Tanner saw has been identified.  A British tourist, who has been ruled out.
2) She saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins on the night Madeleine disappeared, talking near the garden gate of 5A,
3) Her accounts were consistent (that she didn't see a face, and thus, couldn't identify a man via a facial photograph), which is why it was surprising to the private investigators that she identified Tim Craig-Harvey's "George" via a facial photo.

Thus, Jane Tanner's entire value to the case now is as a witness -- but not as a witness of a theoretical abductor, as she once believed. 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 12:43:32 AM by Gadfly1.3 »
--
On 12 May 2011 the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) announced that, at the request of the Home Secretary, it had agreed to bring its particular expertise to the Madeleine McCann case.

The then Commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, considered the request and took the decision that on balance it was the right thing to do. This was subject to funding being made available by the Home Office, as this case is beyond the MPS's jurisdiction.  The Portuguese authorities retain the lead.

Offline pegasus

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #87 on: April 09, 2016, 12:49:49 AM »
(snip) (snip) ...I did not hear Jane Tanner saying it nor have I found confirmation elsewhere that she did ... (snip)
Gadfly I agree with Brietta, all that is in the video is someone claiming that JT said "that is the guy that I saw carrying the child". The video is no proof that JT said it. I suggest that the person spying on her from the next room misheard what she said.

Offline Gadfly1.3

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #88 on: April 09, 2016, 01:05:37 AM »
I suggest that the person spying on her from the next room misheard what she said.

Suggest away.  It was taped.  It was (the interview where she picked George) heard by at least four people (you can ascertain that from the documentary).  So it is up to you to evaluate TCH's credibility.  Either way, whatever was happening with Tanner's memory with regard to faces, her memory of positional placement  of GM/JW hasn't changed.

So again, just to sum-up.
1) The man Jane Tanner saw has been identified.  A British tourist, who has been ruled out.
2) She saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins on the night Madeleine disappeared, talking near the garden gate of 5A,

and...

3) Her accounts were consistent (that she didn't see a face, and thus, couldn't identify a man via a facial photograph), which is why it was surprising to the private investigators that she identified Tim Craig-Harvey's "George" via a facial photo.
--
On 12 May 2011 the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) announced that, at the request of the Home Secretary, it had agreed to bring its particular expertise to the Madeleine McCann case.

The then Commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, considered the request and took the decision that on balance it was the right thing to do. This was subject to funding being made available by the Home Office, as this case is beyond the MPS's jurisdiction.  The Portuguese authorities retain the lead.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Jane Tanner's interview with The Sun on 20 November 2007
« Reply #89 on: April 09, 2016, 01:13:36 AM »
Suggest away.  It was taped.  It was (the interview where she picked George) heard by at least four people (you can ascertain that from the documentary).  So it is up to you to evaluate TCH's credibility.  Either way, whatever was happening with Tanner's memory with regard to faces, her memory of positional placement  of GM/JW hasn't changed.

So again, just to sum-up.
1) The man Jane Tanner saw has been identified.  A British tourist, who has been ruled out.
2) She saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins on the night Madeleine disappeared, talking near the garden gate of 5A,

and...

3) Her accounts were consistent (that she didn't see a face, and thus, couldn't identify a man via a facial photograph), which is why it was surprising to the private investigators that she identified Tim Craig-Harvey's "George" via a facial photo.

And lest we forget she was reported as being 80% sure that the man she saw on the night of the 3rd was the same man seen by Gsil Cooper.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?