Author Topic: How Many More Have to Die?  (Read 239 times)

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Offline faithlilly

How Many More Have to Die?
« on: January 27, 2021, 01:05:19 AM »
In March last year a poster wrote this


“These are already massively out of date, things have moved on at a pace since the weekend.  You can cut and paste  as many links as you like, at the end of the day the facts will speak for themselves.  If the Government’s handling of this crisis is causing unavoidable  deaths then the stats will reflect this.  So far our death rate per head of population is well down compared to other EU countries, maybe that will change, maybe it won’t.  Perhaps you’d like to give examples of governments doing a much better job at containing the virus?  China perhaps?  Are they socialists in your view?”

As we today reach more than 100,000 deaths in this country due to coronavirus, the largest death toll in the world, sadly  my prediction that Johnson and his hideously incompetent government’s handing of this pandemic would lead to hundreds of thousands unnecessary deaths has proved correct. Every other country on this planet with the ability to collate the data has faired better than us....even China.

I once said that the British had a tendency to masochism and the fact the the Conservatives are still neck and neck with Labour in the polls seems to bear this out. How many of our citizens will have to die due to this government’s incompetence before we say enough is enough?

Offline G-Unit

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2021, 10:59:42 AM »
The government had the foresight to order vaccine three months before the EU got round to it. Now the EU is trying to stop it being exported to the UK.

UK leads in total vaccination doses relative to its population compared to European countries
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-astrazeneca-boss-blames-glitches-for-vaccine-supply-delays-in-europe-12200035

Thank goodness they were able to act independently rather than being hampered by having to wait for the EU bureaucracy to creak into action.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2021, 11:08:55 AM »
This thread has been started as a thinly veiled attempt by the OP to have another pop at me.  I stand by every word I wrote in the post quoted.  It is a highly complex issue and simply blaming the government for everything is taking the typical black and white approach of your average intelligence internet commentator - Torys = Bad, Labour = Good.    As the OP refuses to engage with me anymore I shall not bother to comment any further, suffice it to say this crisis has been an absolute gift for the Tory Bashers and the Know-It-Alls and the Captain Hindsight brigade.
Ignoring me won't make me go away.

Offline faithlilly

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2021, 01:24:01 AM »
This thread has been started as a thinly veiled attempt by the OP to have another pop at me.  I stand by every word I wrote in the post quoted.  It is a highly complex issue and simply blaming the government for everything is taking the typical black and white approach of your average intelligence internet commentator - Torys = Bad, Labour = Good.    As the OP refuses to engage with me anymore I shall not bother to comment any further, suffice it to say this crisis has been an absolute gift for the Tory Bashers and the Know-It-Alls and the Captain Hindsight brigade.

It’s not complex. The government failed to heed the advice of its experts and locked down too late three times while also letting households mix at Christmas even though they knew that a new variant of the virus which was more virulent was infecting people. Eat out to help out also helped push numbers up. It really is rather simple why we have the highest death rate in the world, we had a woefully incompetent government.

As you appear to disagree with my conclusions why do you think that we have so many dead ?

For the record I think Labour’s record in opposition during the pandemic has also been woeful.

And as we are now engaging would it be too much to ask if we could try to debate without the insults?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 01:42:15 AM by faithlilly »

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2021, 07:17:04 AM »
It’s not complex. The government failed to heed the advice of its experts and locked down too late three times while also letting households mix at Christmas even though they knew that a new variant of the virus which was more virulent was infecting people. Eat out to help out also helped push numbers up. It really is rather simple why we have the highest death rate in the world, we had a woefully incompetent government.

As you appear to disagree with my conclusions why do you think that we have so many dead ?

For the record I think Labour’s record in opposition during the pandemic has also been woeful.

And as we are now engaging would it be too much to ask if we could try to debate without the insults?
To blame our death rate solely on the actions of the government is overly simplistic and if that is your position then I don’t see any point in discussing what is a hugely complex issue any further.  Nothing I say will change your mind and whilst I concede that the government has undoubtedly made numerous mistakes in the last year I refuse to join in with the online vitriol directed at those who are IMO trying their best in trying circumstances.  They are the only government we’ve got so if you think they’re awful thrn vote them out in four years time.  I can absolutely guarantee that the next bunch won’t be much better.
Ignoring me won't make me go away.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2021, 07:32:57 AM »
UK Covid deaths: Why the 100,000 toll is so bad https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757790 if you want to know why our death rate is so high.  As I said, a complex issue.  Just blaming the government won’t do and is a quite dangerous position to adopt IMO as it overlooks other important contributing factors.
Ignoring me won't make me go away.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2021, 09:34:16 AM »
Meanwhile the situation in Portugal is currently dire - my heart goes out to the Portuguese who are in a terrible way atm.  Undoubtedly their government has made mistakes but now is not the time to point fingers at their leaders and play politics.  Now is the time to pull together and do what needs to be done as swiftly and as effectively as possible - IMO.

Oxygen is running out as Covid cases soar and Portugal confronts ‘catastrophe’
Isambard Wilkinson, Madrid | Oliver Moody, Berlin
Friday January 29 2021, 12.01am, The Times
Coronavirus
More than 20 ambulances wait outside Portugal’s largest hospital, the Santa Maria in Lisbon
More than 20 ambulances wait outside Portugal’s largest hospital, the Santa Maria in Lisbon
EPA/MARIO CRUZ
Share
Save
Portugal is struggling to contain its growing coronavirus outbreak, with overwhelmed hospitals running short of oxygen supplies as the country recorded the world’s highest seven-day average of new daily cases and deaths.

Yesterday afternoon the country announced the closure of its border with Spain from today for two weeks. Flights to and from the UK were banned from last weekend. Flights to and from Brazil, where another worrying variant has been detected, will be banned from Saturday. Germany has also announced a ban on flights to and from Portugal.

António Costa, the prime minister, said Portugal had entered a “terrible” stage. “There is no point in feeding the illusion that we are not facing the worst moment,” he added. “And we’ll face this worst moment for a few more weeks, that is for sure.” He said that had his government known about the British strain it would not have eased restrictions over Christmas. Infections began to soar in the new year and have not yet shown signs of coming down.


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Germany had promised military medical aid, but Mr Costa said: “In everything Portugal has asked for, unfortunately they have no availability, namely doctors, nurses. They have ventilators, but at the moment we don’t need it because we have enough.”

With more than 670,000 cases and 11,600 deaths — including a record 303 dead and 16,432 infections registered on Thursday — the country of ten million people has the world’s highest seven-day average of daily cases and deaths per million. These numbers are the official figures from the Portuguese government and higher than those recoded by the World Health Organisation.


Hospitals in Portugal, which, before the pandemic had the lowest number of critical care beds per 100,000 people in Europe, are using 830 beds out of a total 1,200 for Covid-19 patients. At present 783 Covid patients are in ICUs.

Since Tuesday night, when the oxygen network collapsed at Fernando Fonseca Hospital in Lisbon, more than 100 patients have been moved elsewhere. The Lusa news agency reported that a group of German military doctors had visited the hospital to assess its logistics and equipment needs.

Portugal had entered a “terrible” stage, according to the prime minister
Portugal had entered a “terrible” stage, according to the prime minister
EPA/MARIO CRUZ
TV news showed more than 20 ambulances outside Portugal’s largest hospital, the Santa Maria in Lisbon, waiting for beds. At least ten other hospitals have said they are in a “catastrophic situation”. The capital’s military hospital, which is taking patients from public hospitals, is turning its canteen into a 50-bed ward in three days, bringing its beds to 274, 80 per cent for Covid-19.

“Human resources are finite and that is where the most critical situation is,” said Carlos Robalo Cordeiro, a member of the crisis committee at Portugal’s national association of doctors. “Numbers [of patients] are overtaking the capacity of resources to respond.”

SPONSORED


The German decision to ban travel from Portugal was announced by Horst Seehofer, the interior minister, after online talks with his EU counterparts. “To protect our population, there should be no entry from regions where these variants of the virus are rampant,” he said.

The return of stringent border controls within Europe’s visa-free Schengen zone would be a significant setback for freedom of movement within the bloc. Last March, during the first wave of the pandemic, Germany shut its borders with France, Poland, Austria, Switzerland and Denmark, although there were exceptions for commuters and goods traffic. The controls were eased again from mid-May.
Ignoring me won't make me go away.

Offline faithlilly

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2021, 02:53:26 PM »
Meanwhile the situation in Portugal is currently dire - my heart goes out to the Portuguese who are in a terrible way atm.  Undoubtedly their government has made mistakes but now is not the time to point fingers at their leaders and play politics.  Now is the time to pull together and do what needs to be done as swiftly and as effectively as possible - IMO.

Oxygen is running out as Covid cases soar and Portugal confronts ‘catastrophe’
Isambard Wilkinson, Madrid | Oliver Moody, Berlin
Friday January 29 2021, 12.01am, The Times
Coronavirus
More than 20 ambulances wait outside Portugal’s largest hospital, the Santa Maria in Lisbon
More than 20 ambulances wait outside Portugal’s largest hospital, the Santa Maria in Lisbon
EPA/MARIO CRUZ
Share
Save
Portugal is struggling to contain its growing coronavirus outbreak, with overwhelmed hospitals running short of oxygen supplies as the country recorded the world’s highest seven-day average of new daily cases and deaths.

Yesterday afternoon the country announced the closure of its border with Spain from today for two weeks. Flights to and from the UK were banned from last weekend. Flights to and from Brazil, where another worrying variant has been detected, will be banned from Saturday. Germany has also announced a ban on flights to and from Portugal.

António Costa, the prime minister, said Portugal had entered a “terrible” stage. “There is no point in feeding the illusion that we are not facing the worst moment,” he added. “And we’ll face this worst moment for a few more weeks, that is for sure.” He said that had his government known about the British strain it would not have eased restrictions over Christmas. Infections began to soar in the new year and have not yet shown signs of coming down.


IN YOUR INBOX
Coronavirus update
For a concise rundown of the developments that matter, combined with expert analysis, sign up to receive our dedicated daily coronavirus newsletter
Sign up now
Germany had promised military medical aid, but Mr Costa said: “In everything Portugal has asked for, unfortunately they have no availability, namely doctors, nurses. They have ventilators, but at the moment we don’t need it because we have enough.”

With more than 670,000 cases and 11,600 deaths — including a record 303 dead and 16,432 infections registered on Thursday — the country of ten million people has the world’s highest seven-day average of daily cases and deaths per million. These numbers are the official figures from the Portuguese government and higher than those recoded by the World Health Organisation.


Hospitals in Portugal, which, before the pandemic had the lowest number of critical care beds per 100,000 people in Europe, are using 830 beds out of a total 1,200 for Covid-19 patients. At present 783 Covid patients are in ICUs.

Since Tuesday night, when the oxygen network collapsed at Fernando Fonseca Hospital in Lisbon, more than 100 patients have been moved elsewhere. The Lusa news agency reported that a group of German military doctors had visited the hospital to assess its logistics and equipment needs.

Portugal had entered a “terrible” stage, according to the prime minister
Portugal had entered a “terrible” stage, according to the prime minister
EPA/MARIO CRUZ
TV news showed more than 20 ambulances outside Portugal’s largest hospital, the Santa Maria in Lisbon, waiting for beds. At least ten other hospitals have said they are in a “catastrophic situation”. The capital’s military hospital, which is taking patients from public hospitals, is turning its canteen into a 50-bed ward in three days, bringing its beds to 274, 80 per cent for Covid-19.

“Human resources are finite and that is where the most critical situation is,” said Carlos Robalo Cordeiro, a member of the crisis committee at Portugal’s national association of doctors. “Numbers [of patients] are overtaking the capacity of resources to respond.”

SPONSORED


The German decision to ban travel from Portugal was announced by Horst Seehofer, the interior minister, after online talks with his EU counterparts. “To protect our population, there should be no entry from regions where these variants of the virus are rampant,” he said.

The return of stringent border controls within Europe’s visa-free Schengen zone would be a significant setback for freedom of movement within the bloc. Last March, during the first wave of the pandemic, Germany shut its borders with France, Poland, Austria, Switzerland and Denmark, although there were exceptions for commuters and goods traffic. The controls were eased again from mid-May.

Why do you think that the U.K. has the highest death rate in Europe....even Portugal?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2021, 03:30:17 PM »
Why do you think that the U.K. has the highest death rate in Europe....even Portugal?
See my previous answer(s). 
Ignoring me won't make me go away.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2021, 03:39:55 PM »
Figures show there were 50.5 deaths per million in Scotland in the week to 15 November, compared to 40.6 in England

Does this mean that Nicola Sturgeon's government have handled the pandemic worse than Boris and his government?
Ignoring me won't make me go away.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2021, 05:15:45 PM »
Meanwhile we are now the envy of Europe (or the Germans anyway).  Who’da thunk?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9294521/Germanys-biggest-newspaper-praises-Britains-vaccine-success.html
Ignoring me won't make me go away.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2021, 07:04:22 PM »
Figures show there were 50.5 deaths per million in Scotland in the week to 15 November, compared to 40.6 in England

Does this mean that Nicola Sturgeon's government have handled the pandemic worse than Boris and his government?


Yes!  and she is using it as a party political broadcast to spew her hatred of the English- A total embarrassment to the Scottish people- especially the Scottish soldiers who stand shoulder to shoulder with English counterparts whos lives depend on each other.

Sturgeon is telling wee lies as it has been shown her stats  which she spouts are different from the actual stats!

She also refused help from Bojo to speed up our vaccination roll out  what disgrace she is to our country!
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Erngath

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2021, 09:31:13 PM »
For the benefit  of readers here, this is the usual rant from a unionist who is really really  worried about the rise of the vote for independence.
None of the above rant bears any semblance to the truth.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2021, 09:45:21 PM »
For the benefit  of readers here, this is the usual rant from a unionist who is really really  worried about the rise of the vote for independence.
None of the above rant bears any semblance to the truth.

So what is the truth?

Will this independent Scotland have it's own currency, nuclear deterrent & armed forces or will there need to be some sort of union with England, Wales & N.I?
Free Martin Brueckner

Offline Erngath

Re: How Many More Have to Die?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2021, 10:10:37 PM »
So what is the truth?

Will this independent Scotland have it's own currency, nuclear deterrent & armed forces or will there need to be some sort of union with England, Wales & N.I?

The truth is that MI posts utter rubbish......ranting about spewing hatred for the English and the spouting lies and all the "whataboutery" about soldiers.
Nicola's broadcasts each day have been informative, honest, reassuring and non political.

 We didn't need any help from Prime Minister Johnstone with vaccine roll out. We are well ahead of all the targets for the various cohort groups

Do you really care if Scotland has its own currency, nuclear deterrent and armed forces?
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.