"Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean

[Angelo222]

Your position is (IMO) contradictory because, despite your opinion that Luke is guilty, you also do not believe that his guilt been established "beyond all reasonable doubt".  Therefore as there IS doubt about his guilt (certainly as far as the jury was concerned), he should surely, at the very least, be entitled to a re-trial in your view?  If not, why not?  Just because you think he's guilty?

I understand what you are saying but he has had several opportunities to demonstrate innocence and failed every time. The last review wasn't even referred to the court of appeal.

I don't believe the trial proved that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt simply because the evidence was exclusively circumstantial. I can understand why the jury was conflicted but ultimately decided on a guilty verdict.

Sandra Lean is calling for an 'independent review' of the case but that is something that can only be done if compelling new evidence is found or a new witness steps forward with credible information. None of that has happened. There have been no similar assaults of young woman in the Lothians so one can only come to the conclusion that this was an isolated event and that the killer is behind bars.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I understand what you are saying but he has had several opportunities to demonstrate innocence and failed every time. The last review wasn't even referred to the court of appeal.

I don't believe the trial proved that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt simply because the evidence was exclusively circumstantial. I can understand why the jury was conflicted but ultimately decided on a guilty verdict.

Sandra Lean is calling for an 'independent review' of the case but that is something that can only be done if compelling new evidence is found or a new witness steps forward with credible information. None of that has happened. There have been no similar assaults of young woman in the Lothians so one can only come to the conclusion that this was an isolated event and that the killer is behind bars.

I think on something as serious as a man's liberty we can't simply assume the right man is behind bars based on the fact that no similar crimes have been committed in the area.  I tend to think Mitchell is guilty but I can see why some people might think there was an argument for a retrial based on the "beyond reasonable doubt" threshold not having been achieved in court.   You yourself have claimed that had he been tried in England he would have spent the last 20 years walking around as a free man.  Did you see the recent case of the man tried for the murder of his wife in a swimming pool on holiday?  The judge said he probably did it but advised the jury to find him not guilty, which they did, much to the horror of the woman's family.  On the face of it a no brainer that he committed the murder, but without the clinching evidence that he did (and this is also incidentally the stage that I think the Germans are at in the McCann case).

[Angelo222]

I think on something as serious as a man's liberty we can't simply assume the right man is behind bars based on the fact that no similar crimes have been committed in the area.  I tend to think Mitchell is guilty but I can see why some people might think there was an argument for a retrial based on the "beyond reasonable doubt" threshold not having been achieved in court.   You yourself have claimed that had he been tried in England he would have spent the last 20 years walking around as a free man.  Did you see the recent case of the man tried for the murder of his wife in a swimming pool on holiday?  The judge said he probably did it but advised the jury to find him not guilty, which they did, much to the horror of the woman's family.  On the face of it a no brainer that he committed the murder, but without the clinching evidence that he did (and this is also incidentally the stage that I think the Germans are at in the McCann case).

I have some sympathy with that certainly.

[mrswah]

I understand what you are saying but he has had several opportunities to demonstrate innocence and failed every time. The last review wasn't even referred to the court of appeal.

I don't believe the trial proved that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt simply because the evidence was exclusively circumstantial. I can understand why the jury was conflicted but ultimately decided on a guilty verdict.

Sandra Lean is calling for an 'independent review' of the case but that is something that can only be done if compelling new evidence is found or a new witness steps forward with credible information. None of that has happened. There have been no similar assaults of young woman in the Lothians so one can only come to the conclusion that this was an isolated event and that the killer is behind bars.

IF  Luke is guilty, he killed his girlfriend, which makes it personal, although I cannot pretend to guess what his motive would have been.   There is no reason to think that someone who kills his girlfriend for a specific reason,  is going to become a serial killer of young girls/women.

[Bullseye]

Sandra Lean is calling for an 'independent review' of the case but that is something that can only be done if compelling new evidence is found or a new witness steps forward with credible information. None of that has happened. There have been no similar assaults of young woman in the Lothians so one can only come to the conclusion that this was an isolated event and that the killer is behind bars.

Is that correct? I thought new evidence was required for an appeal etc but not independent review? Have I misunderstood?

[faithlilly]

Is that correct? I thought new evidence was required for an appeal etc but not independent review? Have I misunderstood?

That’s how I understand it.

[Angelo222]

Is that correct? I thought new evidence was required for an appeal etc but not independent review? Have I misunderstood?

Sandra Lean has an issue with the SCCRC after they torpedoed her last submission. She is trying to bypass the Commission by demanding an independent review.  That will never happen just because a bunch of people sign a petition. The rules in Scotland are clear, all reviews go through the SCCRC, to change that you need to change the law.

[faithlilly]

IF  Luke is guilty, he killed his girlfriend, which makes it personal, although I cannot pretend to guess what his motive would have been.   There is no reason to think that someone who kills his girlfriend for a specific reason,  is going to become a serial killer of young girls/women.

Jodi was supposed to have found out about Luke dating another girl. Look at Jodi’s diary, not one hint of suspicion. She
also wrote in her diary that if she lost Luke she’d die, or words to that effect.  Now look at Jodi’s demeanour on the night of her death. According to witnesses she was her usual self. Does that sound as if she had found out that Luke was two timing her?

[faithlilly]

Sandra Lean has an issue with the SCCRC after they torpedoed her last submission. She is trying to bypass the Commission by demanding an independent review.  That will never happen just because a bunch of people sign a petition. The rules in Scotland are clear, all reviews go through the SCCRC, to change that you need to change the law.

I have to agree. At this point in time I’m afraid that an independent review will not happen.

[Brietta]

IF  Luke is guilty, he killed his girlfriend, which makes it personal, although I cannot pretend to guess what his motive would have been.   There is no reason to think that someone who kills his girlfriend for a specific reason,  is going to become a serial killer of young girls/women.

But everyone has to start somewhere.

[John]

All posters are reminded to keep comments amicable and to the point. Information provided to support debate should be accompanied by a link where possible. Please abide by the rules which have been developed for everyone's benefit. TY

[mrswah]

Jodi was supposed to have found out about Luke dating another girl. Look at Jodi’s diary, not one hint of suspicion. She
also wrote in her diary that if she lost Luke she’d die, or words to that effect.  Now look at Jodi’s demeanour on the night of her death. According to witnesses she was her usual self. Does that sound as if she had found out that Luke was two timing her?

Even if she had found out, and was upset and/or angry,  why would Luke have killed her? Teenage boys and girls two time, and  dump each other all the time, without it leading to murder!

Unless Luke was high on drugs, I can't see any reason why he would have murdered his girlfriend, of all people.

[faithlilly]

Even if she had found out, and was upset and/or angry,  why would Luke have killed her? Teenage boys and girls two time, and  dump each other all the time, without it leading to murder!

Unless Luke was high on drugs, I can't see any reason why he would have murdered his girlfriend, of all people.

It appears that Dalkeith was a hotbed of teenage cannabis use at the time.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Even if she had found out, and was upset and/or angry,  why would Luke have killed her? Teenage boys and girls two time, and  dump each other all the time, without it leading to murder!

Unless Luke was high on drugs, I can't see any reason why he would have murdered his girlfriend, of all people.

Perhaps you can posit any good reason for anyone to have butchered a teenage girl in such a manner?

[Nicholas]

What does Sandra Lean say in her book about Luke Mitchell’s suicide idealisations?

Luke Mitchell

The last time I was truly happy was with Jodi. I was always bullied by teachers and considered suicide, but all that went away. She became my connection to the world [/b]

And what did Mitchell mean when he referred to ‘my connection to the world’? Baring in mind he was a man when he stated this - not a 14 year old