"Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean

[Rusty]

No, L&B Police did not protect the crime scene at the time. They were a small suburban police force not equipped to deal with murders. If they were, they may have found more convincing evidence that would have stopped the trial from taking 9 weeks.

No one saw the moped at the V. It is impossible unless you are on the path and that only person was LK the cyclist who didnt see it.

The vague anonymous person who saw Joe following his sister has never been verified and if it did happen was only on the street and not the path that AB allegedly saw them on. [Name removed] usually met LM at the EH end of the path but on the night she was supposed to meet him in NB she never turned up? Why did he sit/stand at the end of his road only 150m away waiting for her whan he could have stayed at home and given her some of his pie and mashed tatties when she turned up?

Are you now saying LM had dinner with Jodi even though she never turned up?

They are a broken record on repeat, that is why you cannot have a rational debate with them. You have to answer their questions time after time, same old crap different month, these questions all focused on the OTHERS, and they never ever provide a cite for any of it. 

But when it comes to talking about the Mitchell's and their whereabouts and actions, that evening. It truly is quite straight forward, if Luke never murdered Jodi, then where was he? Many hours unaccounted for that mid-afternoon/evening. Where was he and what was he doing?

Lets see them give a timeline from the moment he left school, his route, how he got home etc etc, to the moment he met the search party. That's approx 8/9 hours. If he is innocent, it should be easy.

[faithlilly]

No, L&B Police did not protect the crime scene at the time. They were a small suburban police force not equipped to deal with murders. If they were, they may have found more convincing evidence that would have stopped the trial from taking 9 weeks.

No one saw the moped at the V. It is impossible unless you are on the path and that only person was LK the cyclist who didnt see it.

The vague anonymous person who saw Joe following his sister has never been verified and if it did happen was only on the street and not the path that AB allegedly saw them on. [Name removed] usually met LM at the EH end of the path but on the night she was supposed to meet him in NB she never turned up? Why did he sit/stand at the end of his road only 150m away waiting for her whan he could have stayed at home and given her some of his pie and mashed tatties when she turned up?

Are you now saying LM had dinner with Jodi even though she never turned up?

I’m not disputing your reason for the shambolic processing of the crime scene, simply saying that it was shambolic. Further you are right L&B could have found more evidence against Luke but, conversely, a competent handling of the forensics could have put someone else in the dock.

Multiple witnesses claimed they saw the moped at the wall at 5.15. Are you saying that they are all mistaken?

AB would have been a ‘vague, anonymous witness’ too if L&B police hadn’t marked Luke out as the culprit. The two witness were certainly thought credible enough to form an appeal on the information they gave. Further detectives also said in that appeal that this was the first credible sighting of Jodi before her murder.

“ Detective Inspector Tom Martin, one of the officers in the case, said: "This is a significant development for the inquiry team. We now have two independent witnesses who have given us good statements about seeing a young woman who is similar in description to Jodi.”

“ Mr Martin said: "This information is important and it is very helpful that we have two independent witnesses who saw a girl fitting Jodi’s description at a time when we might have expected Jodi to be in that area.”

Remember this was after AB had made her statement so it appears that at that stage, some 16 days after Jodi’s murder, AB’s sighting was not thought important, possibly because Jodi would have been dead by AB’s original timelines.

Your claim about Luke usually meeting Jodi at the Easthouses end of the path isn’t strictly true or why would Janine have said in court that Jodi did walk the path on her own, and that her mum knew that.

No, I’m saying that Jodi’s brother claimed to have dinner with her while Jodi’s mother said not only that Jodi didn’t have any dinner but her son ate his dinner in his room.

[Kenmair]

I’m not disputing your reason for the shambolic processing of the crime scene, simply saying that it was shambolic. Further you are right L&B could have found more evidence against Luke but, conversely, a competent handling of the forensics could have put someone else in the dock.

Multiple witnesses claimed they saw the moped at the wall at 5.15. Are you saying that they are all mistaken?

AB would have been a ‘vague, anonymous witness’ too if L&B police hadn’t marked Luke out as the culprit. The two witness were certainly thought credible enough to form an appeal on the information they gave. Further detectives also said in that appeal that this was the first credible sighting of Jodi before her murder.

“ Detective Inspector Tom Martin, one of the officers in the case, said: "This is a significant development for the inquiry team. We now have two independent witnesses who have given us good statements about seeing a young woman who is similar in description to Jodi.”

“ Mr Martin said: "This information is important and it is very helpful that we have two independent witnesses who saw a girl fitting Jodi’s description at a time when we might have expected Jodi to be in that area.”

Remember this was after AB had made her statement so it appears that at that stage, some 16 days after Jodi’s murder, AB’s sighting was not thought important, possibly because Jodi would have been dead by AB’s original timelines.

Your claim about Luke usually meeting Jodi at the Easthouses end of the path isn’t strictly true or why would Janine have said in court that Jodi did walk the path on her own, and that her mum knew that.

No, I’m saying that Jodi’s brother claimed to have dinner with her while Jodi’s mother said not only that Jodi didn’t have any dinner but her son ate his dinner in his room.

Just quickly and I will get back to the other points tomorrow. Who saw the moped at the V? It's impossible to see unless you're on the path and the only person was LK. So there were no multiple witnesses, not even one. Even SL says the cyclist didn't see the moped.

[faithlilly]

They are a broken record on repeat, that is why you cannot have a rational debate with them. You have to answer their questions time after time, same old crap different month, these questions all focused on the OTHERS, and they never ever provide a cite for any of it. 

But when it comes to talking about the Mitchell's and their whereabouts and actions, that evening. It truly is quite straight forward, if Luke never murdered Jodi, then where was he? Many hours unaccounted for that mid-afternoon/evening. Where was he and what was he doing?

Lets see them give a timeline from the moment he left school, his route, how he got home etc etc, to the moment he met the search party. That's approx 8/9 hours. If he is innocent, it should be easy.

“ Mr [Name removed] said he had looked at a clock when he got into Mr [Name removed]’s house, and it said a quarter to five. It had been wrong. Mr Findlay continued: "You and [Name removed] may have been in the area at or about the time that Jodi may have been attacked, yet you saw nothing and heard nothing?" Mr [Name removed] answered: "No."

Mr Findlay: "You would have the jury believe you know nothing?"

Mr [Name removed]: "Yes."

The witness agreed that the moped had been stopped at a break in a wall, behind which Jodi’s body was discovered, and that he seemed to be "piling up a rather substantial list of coincidences". He said he did not know why he had not gone to the police for several days, nor told any of Jodi’s family he had been on the path that evening.”

https://www.scotsman.com/news/ex-drug-dealer-denies-he-was-behind-murder-cousin-jodi-2509760

It would appear that one of the employees from the tool hire saw the bike against the wall at 5.15. Perhaps on their way home? Multiple witnesses saw the bike around the path ( apologies I worded that rather clumsily).

[faithlilly]

Just quickly and I will get back to the other points tomorrow. Who saw the moped at the V? It's impossible to see unless you're on the path and the only person was LK. So there were no multiple witnesses, not even one. Even SL says the cyclist didn't see the moped.

No idea but JF himself in court agreed that they had stopped the moped at the break in the wall ( see previous post).

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
Kirk Mulholland Each of the searchers - Luke, SK and AW went down in the direction of Jodi's body alone, so there was no-one else to see what they said, did, or saw (I mention "saw" because nobody, other than Luke, can say what he saw, since he was the first to go down, and, we now know that there's a possibility the gran moved Jodi to the position she was in when the police arrived. That would, of course, have been different to the position Luke originally saw her in.)
There's very little detail in the statements about what happened behind the wall - the police were more interested in checking what could be seen from specific distances (to try to claim Luke couldn't have seen Jodi from where he said he did).
A couple of things I found interesting - the gran described what she saw as "like a lump of meat on a butcher's slab" and said that, after she came back over the wall she was "stomping up and down" saying, over and over again, "It's a mess. It's a mess."

Sandra Lean
Kirk Mulholland That was the first thing that came into my mind when I read it. Also, "It's a mess" - she didn't even refer to Jodi by name, or as "the bairn" or any term of endearment whatsoever. It's a mess. What is the "it" that was a mess? I cannot bring myself to believe she was actually referring to Jodi as "it," which leaves me wondering what the "it" does refer to?
I know none of us could say what we would do in those circumstances, but those two phrases really stand out to me as both disturbing and deeply disrespectful.

Why doesn’t [moderated] Sandra Lean detail where exactly, and by who exactly, the alleged following statements originate from and why does she choose to take them out of context?

“like a lump of meat on a butcher's slab”

“It's a mess”

“stomping up and down”

Were the above statements written by a police officer and if so are there transcripts of any recordings of Alice Walker saying these things?

[Nicholas]

“In his closing speech, Alan Turnbull QC narrowed the prosecution case down to three key pieces of evidence. He argued the evidence of the accused’s brother, Jodi Jones family members and a passer-by were sufficient grounds on which to convict Mitchell
https://www.heraldscotland.com/default_content/12463287.one-scotlands-biggest-cases-fails-answer-jodi-murdered/

Has a copy of the transcript of prosecutions closing speech been made available/published?

And if not why not?

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
Kirk Mulholland Each of the searchers - Luke, SK and AW went down in the direction of Jodi's body alone, so there was no-one else to see what they said, did, or saw (I mention "saw" because nobody, other than Luke, can say what he saw, since he was the first to go down and, we now know that there's a possibility the gran moved Jodi to the position she was in when the police arrived. That would, of course, have been different to the position Luke originally saw her in ,

If charlatan Sandra Lean thought someone else was responsible for killer Luke Mitchell’s murder why would she be stating this

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
Kirk Mulholland Each of the searchers - Luke, SK and AW went down in the direction of Jodi's body alone, so there was no-one else to see what they said, did, or saw

More bare faced lies

“Steven climbed over the wall to join Mitchell who pointed and said: 'Down there, 5ft out from the wall.”

“Mr Kelly said he climbed over the wall to join Mr Mitchell, who pointed down the inside of the wall and said: "Down there, 5ft out from the wall."
The witness said he thought he could "see something", believing it at first to be a log.
Prosecuting advocate depute Alan Turnbull QC asked: "Did you come to realise there was a body there?"
Mr Kelly replied: "When I got a bit closer, yes."
The witness paused, before adding that he then "peered round a tree".

[Nicholas]

“In his closing speech, Alan Turnbull QC narrowed the prosecution case down to three key pieces of evidence. He argued the evidence of the accused’s brother, Jodi Jones family members and a passer-by were sufficient grounds on which to convict Mitchell
https://www.heraldscotland.com/default_content/12463287.one-scotlands-biggest-cases-fails-answer-jodi-murdered/

What date did Shane Mitchell apply for the injunction against his mother Corinne Mitchell as stated by true crime natters here https://youtu.be/VrhCC9XhKvU ?

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
Kirk Mulholland Each of the searchers - Luke, SK and AW went down in the direction of Jodi's body alone, so there was no-one else to see what they said, did, or saw (I mention "saw" because nobody, other than Luke, can say what he saw, since he was the first to go down, and, we now know that there's a possibility the gran moved Jodi to the position she was in when the police arrived. That would, of course, have been different to the position Luke originally saw her in.)
There's very little detail in the statements about what happened behind the wall - the police were more interested in checking what could be seen from specific distances (to try to claim Luke couldn't have seen Jodi from where he said he did).
A couple of things I found interesting - the gran described what she saw as "like a lump of meat on a butcher's slab" and said that, after she came back over the wall she was "stomping up and down" saying, over and over again, "It's a mess. It's a mess."

Sandra Lean
Kirk Mulholland That was the first thing that came into my mind when I read it. Also, "It's a mess" - she didn't even refer to Jodi by name, or as "the bairn" or any term of endearment whatsoever. It's a mess. What is the "it" that was a mess? I cannot bring myself to believe she was actually referring to Jodi as "it," which leaves me wondering what the "it" does refer to?
I know none of us could say what we would do in those circumstances, but those two phrases really stand out to me as both disturbing and deeply disrespectful.

If this were true Sandra ( I don’t believe you btw ) why did you not comment on this in your 1st discredited book No Smoke or on one of the forums you posted on under various guises - including ‘Sandra L’ - over all these years

Why has it taken you well over a decade to suggest this Sandra?

If Alice Walker did say the things you claim, guilty killer Luke Mitchell would have told the police, his mother Corinne Mitchell and you way back when

There’s no mention of ‘it’s a mess’ ‘it’s a mess’ by Alice Walker in No Smoke

http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/02/08/copy-of-chapter-from-sandra-leans-1st-discredited-smoke-mirrors-book-promoting-the-innocence-fraud-phenomenon-of-actually-factually-guilty-killer-luke-mitchell/

[Nicholas]

Thora Allan
Why did Findlay not successfully tear apart the eye witness testimony?
It was one of the 3 central planks of the case.
Or was it the jury just believing AB despite not being able to identify him in court?

Sandra Lean
He actually did a pretty good job with the eyewitness testimony, but the jury didn't seem to grasp the significance of it

Thora Allan
Sandra Lean I didn’t think that you could get much better than the eyewitnesses failing to identify the accused as the person she saw… how the jury didn’t grasp that is beyond me.

Sandra Lean
Thora Allan I think we all thought it was over at that point. The other two "eyewitnesses" were torn to shreds by DF - the fact that they made their ID's from newspaper pictures the police brought them, the fact that they admitted knowing they weren't supposed to discuss those with each other, but did anyway, the ridiculous story that appeared for the first time at court about the male pushing back his hair so that one of them could see one of his eyes in a rearview mirror - I don't know how that whole scenario wasn't literally laughed out of court

Thora Allan
Sandra Lean I don’t know either. I obviously wasn’t there but had I been that would have cast real doubt in my mind as a juror.
Did DF create a timeline of the sightings of Luke to show that the eyewitnesses testimony didn’t stack up??

Sandra Lean
Thora Allan I think it goes to show how well the jury had been "primed" by the relentless media coverage..

Gouger Sandra Lean did not attend Killer Luke Mitchell’s 42 day trial, doesn’t know all the evidence and facts of the case - yet claims ‘I think we all thought it was over at that point’

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
Thora Allan I think it goes to show how well the jury had been "primed" by the relentless media coverage..

More projections Sandra 🙄

[TruthSeeker2003]

Thora Allan
Why did Findlay not successfully tear apart the eye witness testimony?
It was one of the 3 central planks of the case.
Or was it the jury just believing AB despite not being able to identify him in court?

Sandra Lean
He actually did a pretty good job with the eyewitness testimony, but the jury didn't seem to grasp the significance of it

Thora Allan
Sandra Lean I didn’t think that you could get much better than the eyewitnesses failing to identify the accused as the person she saw… how the jury didn’t grasp that is beyond me.

Sandra Lean
Thora Allan I think we all thought it was over at that point. The other two "eyewitnesses" were torn to shreds by DF - the fact that they made their ID's from newspaper pictures the police brought them, the fact that they admitted knowing they weren't supposed to discuss those with each other, but did anyway, the ridiculous story that appeared for the first time at court about the male pushing back his hair so that one of them could see one of his eyes in a rearview mirror - I don't know how that whole scenario wasn't literally laughed out of court

Thora Allan
Sandra Lean I don’t know either. I obviously wasn’t there but had I been that would have cast real doubt in my mind as a juror.
Did DF create a timeline of the sightings of Luke to show that the eyewitnesses testimony didn’t stack up??

Sandra Lean
Thora Allan I think it goes to show how well the jury had been "primed" by the relentless media coverage..

Gouger Sandra Lean did not attend Killer Luke Mitchell’s 42 day trial, doesn’t know all the evidence and facts of the case - yet claims ‘I think we all thought it was over at that point’

Was SL at any days in court? Was she just there for the appeals.

[Nicholas]

Kirk Mulholland
Regarding the socks was it possibly Jodi's granny who put them back on her? Just a thought as it seems like something a Granny would possibly do in that situation. Was she questioned on what her actions were apart from cradling Jodi?

Ana Azaria
Kirk Mulholland I'm not sure if she was asked that, it wasn't mentioned by any members of the search party that this had happened, but good question

Kirk Mulholland
Ana Azaria Hi Ana, was just something that's been on my mind for a while that I've never yet looked looked for more info on.

Sandra Lean
Kirk Mulholland Each of the searchers - Luke, SK and AW went down in the direction of Jodi's body alone, so there was no-one else to see what they said, did, or saw (I mention "saw" because nobody, other than Luke, can say what he saw, since he was the first to go down, and, we now know that there's a possibility the gran moved Jodi to the position she was in when the police arrived. That would, of course, have been different to the position Luke originally saw her in.)

There's very little detail in the statements about what happened behind the wall - the police were more interested in checking what could be seen from specific distances (to try to claim Luke couldn't have seen Jodi from where he said he did).

A couple of things I found interesting - the gran described what she saw as "like a lump of meat on a butcher's slab" and said that, after she came back over the wall she was "stomping up and down" saying, over and over again, "It's a mess. It's a mess."

What did killer Luke Mitchell say about the socks?