"Innocents Betrayed " by Sandra Lean

[faithlilly]

No I don't have evidence, but neither do you (perhaps you have more than most, but you don't have 'everything', and I doubt you were at that 42-day trial to hear all the rest of that incriminating circumstantial evidence and get a feel for the case). What I do have is logic and common sense. I never said I condoned physical intimidation, but there are exceptions to most things -- and this might be one of them. Everyone has a breaking point -- some reach theirs quicker than others. If the shoe was on the other foot, and all that (all that incriminating circumstantial DNA). Would you want some jumped-up, mature student mouthbreather with a bogus doctorate continually fomenting activism that is based on misinformation and is deeply fundamentally flawed? And, no, I don't know the Joneses. They had their fair share of problems admittedly, but murdering and protecting a murderer? No way, Jose.

No there is never exceptions when it comes to physically intimidating a woman and her two children, no matter what you think of Dr Lean on a personal level. I’m sure every male who has ever physically or psychologically intimidated a woman is able to justify it to himself in the same way…..’she drove me to it’. I’m shocked that you even tried to condone it. I thought that you were better than that.

Of course you don’t know the Jones’s and what you do know is coloured by their understandably hands off treatment by the press. We do know however that  [Name removed] was psychotic and indulging in behaviour that afternoon that exacerbated his mental condition. We also know that he was prone to violent episodes. Who knows what the outcome of that behaviour may have been?

[faithlilly]

Scientific argument would've no doubt been introduced by the Prosecution in court and clearly explained. I believe SK was treated with an element of suspicion, but obviously he was supplanted by LM when all the circumstantial evidence against the latter began to filter through.

Before the case even got to court tests should have been carried out which tested the police’s theory re: Kelly’s DNA transfer. If the police had treated Kelly as the suspect he should have been this would have been the first thing they did. Why didn’t they? A DNA profile on a body that had no legitimate reason to be there is far weighty evidence against an individual than any circumstantial case. 

[Mr Apples]

No there is never exceptions when it comes to physically intimidating a woman and her two children, no matter what you think of Dr Lean on a personal level. I’m sure every male who has ever physically or psychologically intimidated a woman is able to justify it to himself in the same way…..’she drove me to it’. I’m shocked that you even tried to condone it. I thought that you were better than that.

Of course you don’t know the Jones’s and what you do know is coloured by their understandably hands off treatment by the press. We do know however that  [Name removed] was psychotic and indulging in behaviour that afternoon that exacerbated his mental condition. We also know that he was prone to violent episodes. Who knows what the outcome of that behaviour may have been?

This was one of the most horrific murders ever seen in Scotland. They had to get it right. They had to leave no stone unturned (I'm sure in hindsight, L&BP would've done some things differently). Do you think the police didn't look into all the family and search their houses, take DNA samples from them, etc? Of course they did. As I said, JOSJ had his fair share of problems and a history of violent episodes, but it doesn't make him a murderer. But, I've no doubt he was checked out thoroughly. The police may have had a hunch early on that it was LM, but not, imo, of the expense of looking into other potential suspects (inclusive of Jodi's own family members). They suspected LM for good reason.

[Mr Apples]

Before the case even got to court tests should have been carried out which tested the police’s theory re: Kelly’s DNA transfer. If the police had treated Kelly as the suspect he should have been this would have been the first thing they did. Why didn’t they? A DNA profile on a body that had no legitimate reason to be there is far weighty evidence against an individual than any circumstantial case.

These experienced officers sometimes get a hunch. Their instincts were that something was off about LM himself, and his inconsistent stories. DNA isn't the be all and end all. This case proved that. The DNA was from a laundered shirt; it was a degraded sample and not a fresh deposit (they would have been able to tell if it was a fresh deposit, even though it was left out in the rain for some 8 hours). It would have been widely reported had it been a fresh semen deposit. If it was on the body, then it got there by rainwater diffusion through the laundered t-shirt. SK was effectively ruled out by scientific facts and a solid alibi by his father and Janine herself (as well as other things). Why does Janine still alibi him in the present day? Why wasn't LM screaming and shouting when that guilty verdict came through? He was calm all throughout the entire ordeal, was he not? LM was no shrinking violet. Why no emotion from him if he was innocent?

[faithlilly]

This was one of the most horrific murders ever seen in Scotland. They had to get it right. They had to leave no stone unturned (I'm sure in hindsight, L&BP would've done some things differently). Do you think the police didn't look into all the family and search their houses, take DNA samples from them, etc? Of course they did. As I said, JOSJ had his fair share of problems and a history of violent episodes, but it doesn't make him a murderer. But, I've no doubt he was checked out thoroughly. The police may have had a hunch early on that it was LM, but not, imo, of the expense of looking into other potential suspects (inclusive of Jodi's own family members). They suspected LM for good reason.

No I know that the police didn’t search any property connected to the Jones family. I don’t make claims on a hunch.

You say that having a violent history does not make you a murderer but at the very least it should make you a prime suspect. Unfortunately again he wasn’t checked out thoroughly or if he was that information was not disclosed to the defence.

[faithlilly]

These experienced officers sometimes get a hunch. Their instincts were that something was off about LM himself, and his inconsistent stories. DNA isn't the be all and end all. This case proved that. The DNA was from a laundered shirt; it was a degraded sample and not a fresh deposit (they would have been able to tell if it was a fresh deposit, even though it was left out in the rain for some 8 hours). It would have been widely reported had it been a fresh semen deposit. If it was on the body, then it got there by rainwater diffusion through the laundered t-shirt. SK was effectively ruled out by scientific facts and a solid alibi by his father and Janine herself (as well as other things). Why does Janine still alibi him in the present day? Why wasn't LM screaming and shouting when that guilty verdict came through? He was calm all throughout the entire ordeal, was he not? LM was no shrinking violet. Why no emotion from him if he was innocent?

Let’s start at the end and work backwards.

Luke’s behaviour when the verdict was announced says nothing about his inner feelings. Ask any psychologist. Under stress people don’t always act the way you expect them to. Do I really have to explain that to you?

Why does Janine alibi Kelly to the present day? Could it be that to admit now that she had lied and given him a false alibi she would open herself up to a criminal charge? His father likewise. What ‘other things’ ruled out Kelly? The ‘washing machine’ theory was never tested. How can it possible be a fact. In fact it’s not even clear if the t-shirt was  Janine’s.

A boy’s life should not be ripped from him on ‘a hunch’ but solid evidence.

[Nicholas]

Sadistic killer Luke Mitchell started dating Kara Van Null a few weeks after he started dating Jodi Jones

Jodi Jones only met with up with killer Luke Mitchell a couple of times a week when she first started dating him at/around the end of March 2003

Then there was Laura Wightman

“But only weeks into the relationship, Jodi became worried about Mitchell's close friendship with Laura Wightman, a girl he would later take to her graveside.

Laura was with Luke a lot and once Jodi heard that he might have been cheating on her but I think she spoke to him and they sorted it out”
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+JONES%3A+HER+SOULMATES+My+Luke+has+all+these+knives+in+his...-a0127512558

The verdict: Luke was a dark and dangerous character.. he was irresistible to teenage girls; BUT TEEN TURNED EVIL WHEN TOLD 'NO' By Maggie Barry

Within days of Jodi's murder he had replaced her with another girl.

Within weeks of Jodi's death, Mitchell was having sex with one of her best friends.

When he was banned from Jodi's funeral, Mitchell took his new girlfriend to her graveside knowing it would attract attention.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Jodi+Jones%3A+The+verdict%3A+Luke+was+a+dark+and+dangerous+character..+he...-a0127488179

As well as Kimberly Thompson and Kimberly Tait

This is what Kim Tait stated;

[Nicholas]

Wouldn’t the logical conclusion be that Tait did not give evidence, much like Null, in court? Of course this again raises the question of her credibility as a witness.

Again I am aware of witnesses who gave evidence during sadistic killer Luke Mitchell’s trial who the main stream media did not report on

These are also people scammer Sandra Lean has never mentioned

It’s not clear how long killer Luke Mitchell attended army cadets for

Kara VN stated killer Luke Mitchell’s knife attack on her, when he was wearing his balaclava and pulled it down over his face, occurred in May 2003

However one news article suggests killer Luke joined the army cadets in December 2001 and had left in March 2003

[Nicholas]

However one news article suggests killer Luke joined the army cadets in December 2001 and had left in March 2003

In September 2018 sadistic killer Luke Mitchell stated;

“I wanted to join the armed forces but this put a complete stop to it obviously. I joined the cadets aged 13 and everything felt right. It was the only thing I had geared myself towards”

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16881794.luke-mitchell-interview-rather-stay-behind-bars-admit-guilt-murder-jodi-jones/

Why did he leave the cadets allegedly in March 2003?

[Nicholas]

Kara VN stated killer Luke Mitchell’s knife attack on her, when he was wearing his balaclava and pulled it down over his face, occurred in May 2003

Or at least this is what the media reported

Wasn’t there another knife attack on another young girl whilst sadistic killer Luke Mitchell attended army cadets ?

Was it this other knife attack being referred to in the Herald?

‘During one army cadet exercise, acquaintances remember the youngster approaching a girl from behind in a balaclava, and warning “it would be so easy to kill you.”

Or was this another young girl?

When exactly did killer Luke Mitchell leave army cadets and why?

[Nicholas]

Can you expand on this, Nicholas? What incriminating DNA from LM was found at the locus?

“John Smythe:
The DNA on Jodi’s bra was only a partial match and cannot be claimed as belonging to Luke Mitchell

In the innocence fraud appeal of violent rapist Andrew Malkinson, partial matches from Mr B were said to be found in around 3 or 4 alleged “crime specific” areas

[Nicholas]

The grubby mind of the journalist?

And some of his ‘fictional facts’.

How can you be sure this hasn’t come from Laura Wightman’s evidence?

The following was written by Maggie Barry

The verdict: Luke was a dark and dangerous character.. he was irresistible to teenage girls; BUT TEEN TURNED EVIL WHEN TOLD 'NO' By Maggie Barry

Within days of Jodi's murder he had replaced her with another girl.

Within weeks of Jodi's death, Mitchell was having sex with one of her best friends.

When he was banned from Jodi's funeral, Mitchell took his new girlfriend to her graveside knowing it would attract attention.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Jodi+Jones%3A+The+verdict%3A+Luke+was+a+dark+and+dangerous+character..+he...-a0127488179

“ He said: ‘The cops asked me about my relationship with Jodi’s friend Laura.

“They asked me about Laura and if I wanted it to be just the two of us and asked if that was why I killed Jodi”

When he returned, he told his mother he was going to see his friend Laura and, since it was on my way, I offered to give Mitchell a lift. by Grace McLean

Grace McLean from the daily mail interviewed killer Luke Mitchell a few days after either his 4th July 2003 police interview or his 14th August police interview
https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/07/24/killer-luke-mitchell-open-your-eyes-to-the-continuous-bare-faced-lies-of-scammer-sandra-lean-on-sadistic-dalkeith-murderer-her-new-shop-front-part-266/

[Nicholas]

“ He said: ‘The cops asked me about my relationship with Jodi’s friend Laura.

“They asked me about Laura and if I wanted it to be just the two of us and asked if that was why I killed Jodi”

When he returned, he told his mother he was going to see his friend Laura and, since it was on my way, I offered to give Mitchell a lift.

Sadistic killer Luke Mitchell told Grace McLean his intimate relationship with Laura Wightmans “…was all rubbish”

But it wasn’t

Is the reason there wasn’t more focus on sadistic killer Luke Mitchell’s relationship with Laura Wightman during his trial because of Laura’s medical condition?

It appears clear Laura W’s “severe depressive disorder” was made known about during the trial

“…one friend sided with Mitchell forming an intimate relationship with him in the aftermath of the killing

Despite her initial loyalty, she and Mitchell became estranged and the 15-year-old was later diagnosed with a severe depressive disorder, exacerbated by the heavy use of cannabis and the trauma of her friends murder. Increasing doubts over Mitchell’s innocence may have contributed to her condition.

Did Laura Wightman’s witness statement say she had become estranged from killer Luke Mitchell?

[Chris_Halkides]

If you are aware of some of the history of this case you will know that there were and still are “weak DNA” profiles that “fitted” with Andrew Malkinson’s dna.

Can you offer a citation to back up this claim?

[Nicholas]

If you are aware of some of the history of this case you will know that there were and still are “weak DNA” profiles that “fitted” with Andrew Malkinson’s dna

Can you offer a citation to back up this claim?

Violent rapist Andrew Malkinson, via Bob Woffinden’s 2016 book The Nicholas cases