Author Topic: What makes you certain that Luke Mitchell is guilty beyond reasonable doubt?  (Read 39614 times)

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Offline faithlilly

I'd say it's the opposite. Take look at all the chavs and single mums of Facebook on benefits currently campaigning for Luke because of a documentary.  @)(++(*

Here's another intellectual follower of Sandra (note the bottle of buckfast 44 secs in)  @)(++(* :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGO8UL4grxU

Not to mention the James English mob.

They all think he's innocent because they learned about polygraphs from Jeremy Kyle lol.

You have rather, unintentionally, made my point for me....the power of the media.

Now imagine those same people that you scoff at above had been on the jury. What do you think that the verdict would have been?

That the actual jury was bombarded by negative media stories about Luke and his family before the trial is beyond debate. That some of the rather less susceptible jury members chose not to buy into it is illustrated by the majority verdict.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

?? How does Ms Lean feel of being put in this exact same category? Smack bang it would seem in the midst of these sun readers, pretty much one herself - those claims of the stories in the media that caught her interest in this case? Those tabloids that she was reading and still reads - Her very audience is aimed at herself? These two females, claimed strangers, worlds apart in class? Ms Lean in her council scheme, reading her sun newspaper, lower/working class - Ms Mitchell in her, primarily working class area. There is however no class amongst friends. No honour amongst?

What were Ms Mitchells real feelings towards Jodi Jones - this girl? was she beneath being worthy of her sons attention? Did she class Jodi Jones and her family in this category? Those "feral little bleeps?" She certainly had the same stance against authority as her son. The head teacher? "Hitler in a skirt" Her distaste for Findlay, "in it for the" bucks only. But ever so proud now of her followers, those who head this campaign "knock knock ya beasty b******s" One of the admins it would seem, a long standing criminal, best to have kindred spirits on board?

Does Ms Mitchell and friend? - blame the Jones family with some warped sense of reasoning? That perhaps it is Jodi's fault that her son is in prison? Does she blame Jodi for this altercation that took place? These questions need to be asked and answered. There are far too many unanswered questions around Luke Mitchell, far too many lame excuses. This "half a mars bar" situ - This boy who could do no wrong, everything in life that happened to him, was fault of others, not himself nor his mother. Ms Lean is correct, there certainly is "No Smoke" - it is however directed the other way. What about Luke Mitchell?

Luke and his mother could give permission for the release of their statements in full, could they not? The evidence led around these? - Surely, a total, non airbrushed insight is what should be heading this campaign, first and foremost. Show people how this family really were  - rather than brushing them over by means of distraction? By means of shoring with somewhat ludicrous reasoning?

Or we could simply debate the facts of the case?

That Miss Lean didn’t buy into the tabloid nonsense, perhaps a bit too savvy for that eh, seems to have escaped your notice.

And could Luke and his mother give permission to have their statements in released full ? You post it as fact....but is it?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

Or we could simply debate the facts of the case?

That Miss Lean didn’t buy into the tabloid nonsense, perhaps a bit too savvy for that eh, seems to have escaped your notice.

And could Luke and his mother give permission to have their statements in released full ? You post it as fact....but is it?

The Mitchell’s don’t need permission to publish what they told police

Luke and his mother could give permission for the release of their statements in full, could they not?

When will Sandra Lean publish their statements in full - and to date - why hasn’t she ?

With Luke and Corrine Mitchell’s permission what has stopped Sandra Lean from for example typing up all of what they have stated and start with something like,

The following is what Corrine Mitchell told police...

« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 08:01:53 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline mrswah

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Had I been on the jury, I would have found it difficult to vote for a guilty verdict.

There appears to be no certainty that the young men spotted by the eyewitnesses were Luke, and so, apart from the sighting by the boys who actually knew him, I would not have been able to rely on them.

I cannot be sure that Luke was not at home at the same time as Shane. Even Shane said he wasn't too sure!

There is no evidence that Corinne burned a parka that Luke had worn while murdering Jodi. A strange smell coming from the Mitchell's fire could have been anything.

There appears to be no reason why Luke would have wanted to kill his girlfriend.

Local people were certainly influenced by what was reported in newspapers, and probably, by gossip too.

I'm not fazed by Luke, either. I've taught too many boys of 14/15 who carry knives, who smoke cannabis, who have more than one girlfriend at a time, whose parents have split up, who like weird music and goth culture, etc etc, and who write worrying notes on their school books.   As far as I know, although some of them were a pain in the proverbial in school, none have gone on to murder anyone.

If Luke did kill Jodi, I would imagine he was "high" on something at the time-------always possible, I suppose, but really, I can't see a boy of that age committing such a horrific murder, and managing to take most of his DNA away with him too.

I also wonder whether the murder was committed by more than one person.

Offline Brietta




http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=8a928aa6-78980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

Go to "search judgments" and then search "luke muir mitchell"

Paragraph 8 of the judgment is the relevant bit.

That link only gave me ~ "Judgment was not found."
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Had I been on the jury, I would have found it difficult to vote for a guilty verdict.

There appears to be no certainty that the young men spotted by the eyewitnesses were Luke, and so, apart from the sighting by the boys who actually knew him, I would not have been able to rely on them.

I cannot be sure that Luke was not at home at the same time as Shane. Even Shane said he wasn't too sure!

There is no evidence that Corinne burned a parka that Luke had worn while murdering Jodi. A strange smell coming from the Mitchell's fire could have been anything.

There appears to be no reason why Luke would have wanted to kill his girlfriend.

Local people were certainly influenced by what was reported in newspapers, and probably, by gossip too.

I'm not fazed by Luke, either. I've taught too many boys of 14/15 who carry knives, who smoke cannabis, who have more than one girlfriend at a time, whose parents have split up, who like weird music and goth culture, etc etc, and who write worrying notes on their school books.   As far as I know, although some of them were a pain in the proverbial in school, none have gone on to murder anyone.

If Luke did kill Jodi, I would imagine he was "high" on something at the time-------always possible, I suppose, but really, I can't see a boy of that age committing such a horrific murder, and managing to take most of his DNA away with him too.

I also wonder whether the murder was committed by more than one person.

Didn't Corrine deny using her wood burner that night.

Didn't neighbours give statements to the police stating times when they noticed the wood burner was in use and burning something.

Why would neighbours in nearby properties lie to the police?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Parky41

 Faithlilly, discuss the facts of the case? - this thread was about reasonable doubt, that predictive sway away from this onto CM's far from honest podcast? - Of the stigma around tabloids and broadsheets? Which in turn brought about some very interesting points. It turned tail on you? That it is true - that the very people who were naive to take on board all that was written in the media, are the very same audience required by those spearheading this campaign, by ignoring all and everything of the Mitchells and Ms Lean, of those massive holes in the account they gave/give. Those missing hours. Everything simplified to the point of ridicule? It was a candle in the garden, it was half a mars bar, that the police picked on LM because he was a goth with an odd taste in music, that one policeman out of three MAY have noted "with the boyfriend" indeed, let's add the start of this 'left to meet "with the boyfriend"  That sheer manipulation of all and everything. Two friends and one son, concocting all and everything together. - a much fairer assumption? - A book is written? What did you, yourself state about money to be had in writing about this high profile case?

And it is true is it not - that the majority of those who have jumped on board, are not interested in what is behind those claims? that these claims are nothing short of what the media did at the time. They are not interested in the truthful facts of this case - they have readily accepted every word, to the point they have already solved this murder. These people, in their admin duties, used for that very reason above are they not? for they are exactly what is needed in this campaign, that level of intellect that do not question - that word spoken in the book. It's all true. "There was four of them cotter was the lookout". One would like to say it's not their fault for being of such a gullible intellectual nature, that the fault lies at Ms Leans feet? But it is their fault - They chose to believe rubbish then around goths and so forth - they choose that very simple line of reasoning again in reverse. That there was nothing to convict LM. He was convicted on the basis of being a goth, odd taste in music, he was tried by the media - was he? Well if these people tried LM by media it is hardly surprising they are trying everyone else by Ms Leans book and documentary.

Oh, we have a knife, it is this size, we have blood on a jacket and shoes - the tests carried out showed no reportable results. Then we have that all of the DNA testing was done on the wrong basis of questions asked, of determining the wrong kind of results - this is the type of guff people believe - No reportable results are just that. It was not Jodi Jones' blood. Plain and simple. - These somewhat simple minds drawn to one factor only - of the knife and the blood, because their heads are tuned in first and foremost, to their interest in the macabre not evidence. Not everyone of course. Most have the common sense to sit back and think - Do we trust the experts, these forensic scientists, who are looking for evidence linked to the actual crime - or do we put trust in this woman, who by all accounts, touts out - that she knows better than everyone else. Those who head this campaign are the same - we are the experts, what you say is piffle, you don't know anything? This avenue has long since worn thin. There is much more known about this case than ever before. The days of Jigsawman are long gone.

What does stand, and has always stood firm - is there is nothing to show that LM could not have killed his girlfriend. There is that simple choice of disbelief in your run of the mill, 14yr old being capable. - There was nothing run of the mill in this killer. There is evidence in abundance that LM was not your average type of 14yr old. Those  teaching days? How many of these pupils, could you have put in the same category of total void as LM? Whom would simply claim "I'm not that type of guy?" This was a 14yr old boy making this claim - not an adult? That shed not one tear for this girl. What he did do instead is possess and view this horrible depiction of a woman, murdered, mutilated and left naked in a woodland. That he bought a new knife identical to the one still missing. He bought this new parka, before he was asked about one by the police. They did not expect the FLO to be there waiting for the shopping and receipt. And this is only touching on all there was. 

Not everything can be excused by some ridiculous fallacy of reasoning - LM showed nothing typical of a 14yr old, normal run of the mill boy before and most definitely not after this murder.

Offline Nicholas

Didn't Corrine deny using her wood burner that night.

Didn't neighbours give statements to the police stating times when they noticed the wood burner was in use and burning something.

Why would neighbours in nearby properties lie to the police?

Luke Mitchell told police his mother and Shane were using the wood burner on the night of 30th June 2003

So it seems the police knew the burner had been used that night before they’d spoken to any of the neighbours
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Vertigo Swirl

You have rather, unintentionally, made my point for me....the power of the media.

Now imagine those same people that you scoff at above had been on the jury. What do you think that the verdict would have been?

That the actual jury was bombarded by negative media stories about Luke and his family before the trial is beyond debate. That some of the rather less susceptible jury members chose not to buy into it is illustrated by the majority verdict.
I expect those were the ones that only read the Guardian.  8(0(*
Not a handwriting expert.

Offline Nicholas

When does Sandra Lean plan to tell her followers what a ‘miscarriage of justice’ is and what it isn’t ?

‘Pressure’ won’t get Luke Mitchell’s murder conviction back to the Court of Appeal only new evidence will do that

Luke told police his mother and brother had a fire in the garden that night

It was also Luke who told the public another ‘suspect’ was allegedly burning clothes that night

3rd September 2003

JAMES MATTHEWS:   This burning of clothes keeps getting mentioned and there is also the subject of a missing knife, is that your missing knife?
LUKE:   No.  The burning clothes that wasn’t us.  They just stated that a female relative of the suspect admitted to burning clothes.


JAMES MATTHEWS:   Was that you or anyone connected to you?
LUKE:   No, not that we know of.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 04:38:46 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Brietta

That link only gave me ~ "Judgment was not found."
Thank you mrswah.  I got there eventually.

It was as I thought the (belated) enactment of procedure.

Individuals called for jury service were advised that if they had personal knowledge of anyone associated with the case they were not allowed to serve.

Days after the jury was empanelled and some evidence heard it was discovered that Luke Mitchell's current girlfriend had once been the girlfriend of a juror's son and the juror had attended the same school as Jodi and Mitchell.

A new jury had to be empanelled and given the same instruction as the original one.

It would have been helpful I think had the jury member mentioned the school connection a bit sooner; I think that association of place would have been sufficient to disqualify.  Maybe because Mitchell was not known personally to the juror it was disregarded as a result.  I think it highly probable that the juror may not have been immediately aware of the girl/boyfriend issue until the trial had started and family members mentioned it then.

Interesting though and at least now I know
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline mrswah

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That link only gave me ~ "Judgment was not found."

Sorry Brietta. The link is hopeless!  I got to the page, and had to mess around for a while, before I could find it.   You would be better off to google "Why was there a change of jury in the Luke Mitchell trial?"  That is how I first found the page.

There is a BBC news article too, but again, I couldn't get the link to work.

Offline mrswah

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Didn't Corrine deny using her wood burner that night.

Didn't neighbours give statements to the police stating times when they noticed the wood burner was in use and burning something.

Why would neighbours in nearby properties lie to the police?

I believe Luke himself said they had used the woodburner that night.

One neighbour in particular was sure the smell was coming from the Mitchell's garden, others , further away, just mentioned an unusual  smell that might have been coming from their property.

I'm sure nobody lied to the police, but some might have been mistaken re the day---who knows, and, in any case, nobody could say what the fire was being used for.  When the wood burner was checked by police, they found no evidence that Corinne had been burning clothes in it.

So, it is possible that she did, but we cannot say beyond reasonable doubt-----IMO.

Offline mrswah

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Thank you mrswah.  I got there eventually.

It was as I thought the (belated) enactment of procedure.

Individuals called for jury service were advised that if they had personal knowledge of anyone associated with the case they were not allowed to serve.

Days after the jury was empanelled and some evidence heard it was discovered that Luke Mitchell's current girlfriend had once been the girlfriend of a juror's son and the juror had attended the same school as Jodi and Mitchell.

A new jury had to be empanelled and given the same instruction as the original one.

It would have been helpful I think had the jury member mentioned the school connection a bit sooner; I think that association of place would have been sufficient to disqualify.  Maybe because Mitchell was not known personally to the juror it was disregarded as a result.  I think it highly probable that the juror may not have been immediately aware of the girl/boyfriend issue until the trial had started and family members mentioned it then.

Interesting though and at least now I know


Glad you found it!

I found it surprising that they discharged the entire jury because of one person having a "connection".  Is this usual, do you know?

Offline faithlilly

Faithlilly, discuss the facts of the case? - this thread was about reasonable doubt, that predictive sway away from this onto CM's far from honest podcast? - Of the stigma around tabloids and broadsheets? Which in turn brought about some very interesting points. It turned tail on you? That it is true - that the very people who were naive to take on board all that was written in the media, are the very same audience required by those spearheading this campaign, by ignoring all and everything of the Mitchells and Ms Lean, of those massive holes in the account they gave/give. Those missing hours. Everything simplified to the point of ridicule? It was a candle in the garden, it was half a mars bar, that the police picked on LM because he was a goth with an odd taste in music, that one policeman out of three MAY have noted "with the boyfriend" indeed, let's add the start of this 'left to meet "with the boyfriend"  That sheer manipulation of all and everything. Two friends and one son, concocting all and everything together. - a much fairer assumption? - A book is written? What did you, yourself state about money to be had in writing about this high profile case?

And it is true is it not - that the majority of those who have jumped on board, are not interested in what is behind those claims? that these claims are nothing short of what the media did at the time. They are not interested in the truthful facts of this case - they have readily accepted every word, to the point they have already solved this murder. These people, in their admin duties, used for that very reason above are they not? for they are exactly what is needed in this campaign, that level of intellect that do not question - that word spoken in the book. It's all true. "There was four of them cotter was the lookout". One would like to say it's not their fault for being of such a gullible intellectual nature, that the fault lies at Ms Leans feet? But it is their fault - They chose to believe rubbish then around goths and so forth - they choose that very simple line of reasoning again in reverse. That there was nothing to convict LM. He was convicted on the basis of being a goth, odd taste in music, he was tried by the media - was he? Well if these people tried LM by media it is hardly surprising they are trying everyone else by Ms Leans book and documentary.

Oh, we have a knife, it is this size, we have blood on a jacket and shoes - the tests carried out showed no reportable results. Then we have that all of the DNA testing was done on the wrong basis of questions asked, of determining the wrong kind of results - this is the type of guff people believe - No reportable results are just that. It was not Jodi Jones' blood. Plain and simple. - These somewhat simple minds drawn to one factor only - of the knife and the blood, because their heads are tuned in first and foremost, to their interest in the macabre not evidence. Not everyone of course. Most have the common sense to sit back and think - Do we trust the experts, these forensic scientists, who are looking for evidence linked to the actual crime - or do we put trust in this woman, who by all accounts, touts out - that she knows better than everyone else. Those who head this campaign are the same - we are the experts, what you say is piffle, you don't know anything? This avenue has long since worn thin. There is much more known about this case than ever before. The days of Jigsawman are long gone.

What does stand, and has always stood firm - is there is nothing to show that LM could not have killed his girlfriend. There is that simple choice of disbelief in your run of the mill, 14yr old being capable. - There was nothing run of the mill in this killer. There is evidence in abundance that LM was not your average type of 14yr old. Those  teaching days? How many of these pupils, could you have put in the same category of total void as LM? Whom would simply claim "I'm not that type of guy?" This was a 14yr old boy making this claim - not an adult? That shed not one tear for this girl. What he did do instead is possess and view this horrible depiction of a woman, murdered, mutilated and left naked in a woodland. That he bought a new knife identical to the one still missing. He bought this new parka, before he was asked about one by the police. They did not expect the FLO to be there waiting for the shopping and receipt. And this is only touching on all there was. 

Not everything can be excused by some ridiculous fallacy of reasoning - LM showed nothing typical of a 14yr old, normal run of the mill boy before and most definitely not after this murder.

For me there’s only a few questions that really matter in this case, one that I have asked you several times now without an answer. Not being someone who gives up easily I’ll try again. If Andrina Bryson’s sighting was not at the time she gave in her first two statements but at her revised timeline of 4.54, what was she doing for the 45 minutes between 4.05 and 6.17 that remain unaccounted for?

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?