Author Topic: What makes you certain that Luke Mitchell is guilty beyond reasonable doubt?  (Read 39606 times)

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Offline Nicholas

When does Sandra Lean plan to tell her followers what a ‘miscarriage of justice’ is and what it isn’t ?

She’s again promoted Michael O’Brien but omits to tell people, or make it clear even; he’s yet to prove his innocence
(more here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12057.msg648845#msg648845)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 08:08:16 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Brietta

I believe Luke himself said they had used the woodburner that night.

One neighbour in particular was sure the smell was coming from the Mitchell's garden, others , further away, just mentioned an unusual  smell that might have been coming from their property.

I'm sure nobody lied to the police, but some might have been mistaken re the day---who knows, and, in any case, nobody could say what the fire was being used for.  When the wood burner was checked by police, they found no evidence that Corinne had been burning clothes in it.

So, it is possible that she did, but we cannot say beyond reasonable doubt-----IMO.

I think that those who testified at Mitchell's trial had no doubt whatsoever about when and where from the smoke and burning smells emanated. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+%27FIRE%27+CLAIM%3b+Neighbours+tell+of+smoke+at+accused+Mitchell%27s...-a0125857792
There was quite a window available for anyone wishing to destroy evidence.

Had I been on the jury it is definitely testimony I would have taken on board both from what the neighbours had to say and the denial of Mitchell's family that such an event as the burning ever happened.

It is also another plank in my belief in Mitchell's guilt.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta


Glad you found it!

I found it surprising that they discharged the entire jury because of one person having a "connection".  Is this usual, do you know?

Me too.  Perhaps it was because the original members had heard some of the evidence (which obviously would have had to be repeated for the newbee) and it was preferable to start again or maybe it was just standard practice for such an event.

I'm not sure what happens in the event of a juror falling ill (a substitute?) but I did discover that jurors might have other pressing problems too, for example - While the court is in session, the jury can't leave the courtroom. This means that you may not visit the toilet during the court session time.  https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/law-and-courts/legal-system-s/taking-legal-action-s/jury-service-s/#h-illness-and-jury-service
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Nicholas

Didn’t know where to put this - but well worth a listen - it’s relevant to Luke Mitchell’s campaign (And touches on hypnosis)

‘Is The Wrongful Conviction Movement Unstoppable?’

with Roberta Glass feat: Devon Tracey aka "Atheism is Unstoppable"   


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=laujRg3W5C4&ab_channel=RobertaGlassTrueCrimeReport
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 10:43:00 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

I think that those who testified at Mitchell's trial had no doubt whatsoever about when and where from the smoke and burning smells emanated. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+%27FIRE%27+CLAIM%3b+Neighbours+tell+of+smoke+at+accused+Mitchell%27s...-a0125857792
There was quite a window available for anyone wishing to destroy evidence.

Had I been on the jury it is definitely testimony I would have taken on board both from what the neighbours had to say and the denial of Mitchell's family that such an event as the burning ever happened.

It is also another plank in my belief in Mitchell's guilt.

Yes even though Luke Mitchell said his mother and brother had a fire that night
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

I think that those who testified at Mitchell's trial had no doubt whatsoever about when and where from the smoke and burning smells emanated. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+%27FIRE%27+CLAIM%3b+Neighbours+tell+of+smoke+at+accused+Mitchell%27s...-a0125857792
There was quite a window available for anyone wishing to destroy evidence.

Had I been on the jury it is definitely testimony I would have taken on board both from what the neighbours had to say and the denial of Mitchell's family that such an event as the burning ever happened.

It is also another plank in my belief in Mitchell's guilt.

Are you aware how many neighbours claimed that they didn’t smell anything that night?


The police asked neighbours about smoke or the smell of burning on the 30th of June. 32 out of 35 neighbours either said there was no smoke that evening, they couldn't say for sure if there was smoke, or they gave accounts of various places where the smell of smoke could have been emanating from (other than the Mitchell garden).
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 12:43:06 AM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Will we ever hear about the parenting Luke Mitchell received growing up?

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Lc8pylzyEnsC&pg=PA3&source=kp_read_button&newbks=1&newbks_redir=1&redir_esc=y

Or indeed Jodi.

Didn’t Jodi want to leave home and live with her gran just as her sister had done when she was 14?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Had I been on that jury I would have had no hesitation in finding him guilty and I would have had no doubt of that given the evidence presented in court by the prosecution.

Don't forget Mitchell had one of Scotland's foremost advocates presenting his case and doing his best for him. But his sharpness was not enough to overcome the elimination process the police had carried out on other named individuals, the weight of the circumstantial evidence presented against him or the obvious fabrication of Mitchell's alibi.
If you have to lie about where you were, in my opinion you have something to hide.

We can get a flavour of the evidence provided at trial when reading about Mitchell's appeals to the Law Lords who explained exactly why they upheld the judgement made at Mitchell's original trial.

I think Mitchell had a fair trial which is a damn sight more than Jodi Jones was allowed or her family in the years since and I am singularly unimpressed by the unashamed innuendo and stretching of 'truths' out of context exhibited by the campaigners on Mitchell's behalf.

I am glad the jury at Mitchell's trial had the courage of their convictions to go for the outcome which kept what they obviously believed to be an exceptionally dangerous man off the streets.

Stefan Kizsko was represented by David Waddington who went on to become Home Sec.  But neither he nor the trial judge, Sir Hugh Park, were smart enough to outwit 4 x 13 year old girls who lied about SK simply "for a laugh". 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline faithlilly

Stefan Kizsko was represented by David Waddington who went on to become Home Sec.  But neither he nor the trial judge, Sir Hugh Park, were smart enough to outwit 4 x 13 year old girls who lied about SK simply "for a laugh". 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed

Weren’t the Mitchell family catholics?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/back-to-court-for-qc-in-sectarian-football-songs-row-1097592.html
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline mrswah

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  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Weren’t the Mitchell family catholics?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/back-to-court-for-qc-in-sectarian-football-songs-row-1097592.html


Luke attended a Catholic school, but I am not sure the Mitchell family are Catholics. I read that his mother sent him there, so that he would be away from classmates who had bullied him at primary school. I can't recall where I read it, and have no idea whether it's true.

The Jones family may be Catholic---not sure.

I have often wondered whether Luke writing satanist stuff on his schoolbooks was merely a reaction to receiving Catholic teaching that he didn't believe  ???

Offline Brietta

Stefan Kizsko was represented by David Waddington who went on to become Home Sec.  But neither he nor the trial judge, Sir Hugh Park, were smart enough to outwit 4 x 13 year old girls who lied about SK simply "for a laugh". 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed
In what could be described as one of the worst miscarriages of justice ever Stefan Kiszko was convicted at a time when if there was DNA profiling it was in its infancy.  New evidence of DNA introduced at his appeal proved his innocence.
Neil Wilby writes about Stefan here  https://neilwilby.com/2016/03/20/the-case-of-stefan-kiszko-and-a-police-force-enamoured-by-its-own-sense-of-invincibility/

In my opinion there is not the remotest connection between Stefan's case and Mitchell's - in particular that no new evidence has ever been produced which justifies Mitchell's failed appeals or to justify a new one.
Just another red herring being introduced to Mitchell's case to join a shoal of them.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta


Luke attended a Catholic school, but I am not sure the Mitchell family are Catholics. I read that his mother sent him there, so that he would be away from classmates who had bullied him at primary school. I can't recall where I read it, and have no idea whether it's true.

The Jones family may be Catholic---not sure.

I have often wondered whether Luke writing satanist stuff on his schoolbooks was merely a reaction to receiving Catholic teaching that he didn't believe  ???

I think perhaps a more appropriate word to use might be "Christian" teaching
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Parky41

Quote
Do you no longer believe that all individuals deal differently with trauma?

It is a mute point anyway as Janine told police on that first morning after the murder that ‘everyone was in hysterics’ and the 999 operator’s ‘laddie’  comment reinforces Luke’s demeanour after he found the body.

Mute  point - perhaps this is one of the most ridiculous points you have made so far, other than the repetitive, move on we have proved this - rubbish. The recordings were played at trial, I, nor anyone else needs to prove this. The onus of proof to show this to be false is on Ms Lean. She has already admitted these recordings were played, that she doesn't physically have them but has the court transcripts around them? - I wonder if she actually does, as it is becoming clearer of how little she factually does have? - Those phone records, the investigation and elimination of others, statements, that of SK's father, now of AO. - the defence papers? How were the rest of the search party in comparison to LM.? When clarification was sought around these "hysterics?"  Who was vomiting? However:

Firstly, and remember here, that anyone who is discussing the evidence led by the Crown does not have the onus of proof to bare. The onus of proof to show that Mitchell is anything other than guilty, lies with the few who campaign on his behalf. They have failed miserably, as they can not even come close to this. - Mainly because there is this blank line of discussion when it comes to the Mitchells. - This consistent avenue of passing the buck. It only works on the few, who instantly jump on these repetitive rabbits getting pulled out the hat.

The repetitive rabbits - Those minute areas of verbatim used to add weight to air. Extracted from statements consisting of 1000's of words. Those missing pre and after areas, those vital areas of context. Or those 'what about?" Let's highlight a couple of areas here.

Jodi had been banned from using this path by her mother - What does JuJ actually say about this? When did she ban her daughter?, why did she ban her daughter?. We are told nothing of this, what we are however shown is a couple of small excerpts to show that she may have walked this path at some point, alone. It proves nothing. It gives absolutely no reason as to why LM made claim to simply idling away for the best part of two hours. It matters not a jot if this girl had walked this path alone before - what does matter and only matters is that - LM knew of this ban, that he knew the isolation of the path in question as being the reason for this ban. That there was absolutely no reason for him to hang around - there is an abundance of evidence to show however that this was made up.  Instead of those couple of tiny excerpts to prove some futile point, where are the other statements of accounts, of Jodi being banned? - her friends? As stated, these predictive rabbits are indictive of everything in the blatant weakness of which they are used. They only highlight more so, of how much evidence there was against LM, that clear cut suspicion, the strength of the prosecution case.

LM idling away for the best part of two hours, over:

Firstly that initial lie, of leaving home to meet with Jodi en-route. Of this being around 5.45pm.The meeting was claimed to be at 6pm.
Jodi walking an isolated path to meet with him.
The ban of using this isolated path.
These clear cut reasons as to why a 14yr old would not simply idle the time away, watching and waiting.
That clear cut proof that LM would know of the ban of walking this path.
Clear cut reason and knowledge of this isolated path, the dangers for a young girl. 
The sighting by  F&W.
Nothing for approx 18mins - we know it takes less that 7mins to get from his house onto the path itself.
That there is an expanse of woodland behind this gate, near to this gate is an entrance into a pathway to these woods.
We know there is a river flowing through here (The Esk)
We know there are openings from these woods onto Newbattle Abbey crescent.
Three sightings in the space of 15 - 20 mins, from 6pm - 6.15pm and just after. Busy road at this time of day? Yet nothing from the sighting by F&W around 17.40pm. And absolutely no sightings of him from just after 6.15pm until he met with the boys at 7.30pm So that is three sightings in a very small time frame. 1 sighting just after 17.40pm.
Where was LM? the rest of the time?
That he did not phone back, more so with the knowledge of this isolated path. She was not late with that first call.
She was however very late, by his claims after it. Claimed to be walking this isolated path on her own.
That there was absolutely nothing to show that his girl would have went elsewhere. His very claims are of this meet at 6pm.
Which only adds more weight into not phoning back. Remember here, by his first account, this is around 17.50pm.
She had not even been late when he phoned. He was told she had left to meet with him.
He did not phone back - we know of course why. As we know he had not left his house at 17.45pm

So you see, the time lapse on the Jones side is irrelevant to all and everything LM claimed to have done. - it is simply a diversion tactic.  Even If/with Jodi having walked this path alone at some point previously to the ban, it is still irrelevant to LM's claims.

And Faithlilly wants to know, minute by minute what AB was doing after the sighting of LM and Jodi around 4.55pm? - one is having a laugh surely?- perhaps explaining the above, with sense would be a better area of discussion before that of irrelevant time lapse with others, whom were clearly busy. Not this claimed rubbish above, which is paramount to twiddling his thumbs for the best part of two hours??  - normal for a 14yr old boy to do?, of course it's not.

Let's add on him telling DH Jodi was not coming out.
Of telling Jodi's mother he thought she had been grounded again.
Of Jodi leaving home prior to 5pm to meet with him and only him.
That Jodi had told her mother that they would be "mucking around up here"
That this girl who had been banned from using this path due to its isolation, would not have wandered into the woodland on her own
That the first place LM looked for Jodi was in this woodland, at the 'Gino spot'
That LM claimed never to have been in this woodland before.
That LM claimed he did not know of the existence of this V break.

The list is endless of course, there is much more - And none of it can be proven to be wrong, it is after all mainly LM's own account. It had massive holes in it from the moment he opened his mouth, those holes only got deeper as this investigation went on - And the police are blamed for this? The Crown, the defence, the Jones', the schoolteachers, the friends, any witness? On that note?

Where were the witness's for the Mitchells? - Character witness's for one? Why was LM's father not on the stand? His family? - anyone?

Offline Nicholas

She’s again promoted Michael O’Brien but omits to tell people, or make it clear even; he’s yet to prove his innocence
(more here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12057.msg648845#msg648845)

Sandra Lean making claim to her followers on ‘statement analysis’ and saying ‘i’ll be honest’

She’s said she’s going to look into it but don’t think they’ll come up with anything useful


Did you rely on ‘police statements’ to help write your books?

she doesn’t know much about it...

 @)(++(*


Publish Luke and Corrine Mitchell’s statements Sandra and let your followers decide for themselves
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 03:16:31 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation