Madeleine McCann - The locks to apartment 5a

[DCI]

Its not identical since the apartment lock was an older model.  The latest version has subtle improvements in design.

The lock you are showing is a Chaves brand lock, the one you say is a "Door lock identical to that used in apt 5a.  Note however that the actual key is of a different design" is a Cifial brand.

Both are wrong the lock on 5a is a Rodes brand, which Carana posted and looks identical by lock and key, which still has the same design with hole in the corner of key, not centre.

Page 13 here. http://www.rodes.pt/images/stories/catalogs/catalogo_Rodes.pdf

[John]

The current design of the Rodes brand lock appears to have altered slightly (4 entrance key)



The point is that Madeleine would have been quite capable of opening the front door had it not been security locked using the key, the manufacturer of the actual lock is irrelevant.  For the benefit of this exercise the locks appear virtually identical.

We know for a fact that Madeleine was in the habit of going out that door every morning so in her mind it represented a way out for her to find her parents. Unfortunately, what she probably wouldn't have realised was that her parents were on the other side of the building and not at the front at all.  Off course, until she is found or someone owns up to an involvement in her disappearance, it will never be determined what befell her that night be it by accident or by design.

[Carana]

If it wasn't dead-locked, would it be that difficult to use something to slide back that latch?

I don't see what screw the guy is talking about.

[jassi]

The current design of the Rodes brand lock appears to have altered slightly (4 entrance key)



The point is that Madeleine would have been quite capable of opening the front door had it not been security locked using the key, the manufacturer of the actual lock is irrelevant.  For the benefit of this exercise the locks appear virtually identical.

We know for a fact that Madeleine was in the habit of going out that door every morning so in her mind it represented a way out for her to find her parents. Unfortunately, what she probably wouldn't have realised was that her parents were on the other side of the building and not at the front at all.  Off course, until she is found or someone owns up to an involvement in her disappearance, it will never be determined what befell her that night be it by accident or by design.

Why should it not have been securely locked, as the patio door was already left unlocked for access.  Why leave the whole place wide open, front and back ?

[Carana]

I really don't understand the PJ's demonstration.

If it had been dead-locked, then I can see that a credit card may not have done the job. However, if it wasn't, then with a malleable implement the height of the latch, it should be fairly easy to push the latch open, I would have thought - particularly as the triangular side faces the outside.

So how would that demo with a credit card prove that she couldn't have been abducted?

[slartibartfast]

I really don't understand the PJ's demonstration.

If it had been dead-locked, then I can see that a credit card may not have done the job. However, if it wasn't, then with a malleable implement the height of the latch, it should be fairly easy to push the latch open, I would have thought - particularly as the triangular side faces the outside.

So how would that demo with a credit card prove that she couldn't have been abducted?

It doesn't seem outside the realms of possibility that the front door was shut and the latch pushed across but not deadlocked with the key.

[Anna]

It doesn't seem outside the realms of possibility that the front door was shut and the latch pushed across but not deadlocked with the key.

We have a similar lock with the lever. The deadlock was only used when we were further afield than just down the road, as it can be difficult at times, to unlock again.

[jassi]

We have a similar lock with the lever. The deadlock was only used when we were further afield than just down the road, as it can be difficult at times, to unlock again.

Less of an issue when you've left the 'back' door open for easy access.

[Alice Purjorick]

Less of an issue when you've left the 'back' door open for easy access.

They were, after all is said and done, "only in the back garden" or some such similar sort of wording.

[Carana]

It doesn't seem outside the realms of possibility that the front door was shut and the latch pushed across but not deadlocked with the key.

If simply shutting it made a key necessary to open it from the outside (there was no handle), then pushing a latch from the inside wouldn't have been necessary, would it?

[John]

If it wasn't dead-locked, would it be that difficult to use something to slide back that latch?

I don't see what screw the guy is talking about.

Thank you for posting those PJ photos Carana.  The screw (screwhead) he is talking about is the lower one of the two depicted below.  The head of the screw would not have impeded totally the use of a credit card type device to afford entry imo.  Slipping it in just above the screw would have easily opened the latch.



Closeup of lock fitted to front door of apartment 5a.

[John]

Are there any references in statements to the deadlock being applied on the front door or was it as I suspect not seen as necessary as long as it was 'on the snib'?

[Carana]

Thank you for posting those PJ photos Carana.  The screw (screwhead) he is talking about is the lower one of the two depicted below.  The head of the screw would not have impeded totally the use of a credit card type device to afford entry imo.  Slipping it in just above the screw would have easily opened the latch.



Closeup of lock fitted to front door of apartment 5a.

If the screw was flush with the edge of the door, I don't see how that would have blocked an implement.

The other thing is why is he shoving a credit card into an area largely above the lower latch thing, encompassing where the dead-lock would have blocked the card, if it had been deployed?

Is that meant to be a serious forensic demonstration of the impossibility of someone entering the apartment via that door?


ETA: John, those aren't PJ photos. They come from Amaral's "documentary".

[Alice Purjorick]

If the screw was flush with the edge of the door, I don't see how that would have blocked an implement.

The other thing is why is he shoving a credit card into an area largely above the lower latch thing, encompassing where the dead-lock would have blocked the card, if it had been deployed?

Is that meant to be a serious forensic demonstration of the impossibility of someone entering the apartment via that door?


ETA: John, those aren't PJ photos. They come from Amaral's "documentary".

In photo 1 in the sequence above it appears that the the gap between the free edge of the door and door frame is covered by a moulding of some sort. If so forget trying to "pick the lock" with a flexible piece of plastic. The normal technique is to slide the piece of plastic between the door frame and door above (or below) the lock tenon then shuggle it to the the tenon then shuggle it some more in the hope the card will get around the end of the tenon; this is made easier if there is an engaged handle one can shuggle up and down and/or the door is a "rattling good fit". With a moulding covering the gap it will be next to impossible as one will be trying to insinuate the plastic around a right angle bend. This likely will cause the plastic to break or take up a permanent set, also the tenon appears to be cunningly designed to eliminate the possibility of using a piece of plastic. Remember the professional only likes easy targets.
Anyone on here an experienced in B & E ?

[Anna]

Are there any references in statements to the deadlock being applied on the front door or was it as I suspect not seen as necessary as long as it was 'on the snib'?

Since Gerry and Kate left by the back door, The front door wouldn't have been locked by a key (Deadlocked)
______________________________________________________________________

 Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE through the back door which he consequently closed but did not lock, given that that is only possible from the inside. Concerning the front door, although he is certain that it was closed, it is unlikely that it was locked, because they left through the back door.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post524.html#p524

It seems that one Security minded, witness did double lock(deadlock) their own door, but left the key under the door mat, because they were only issued with one key.