Author Topic: Sandra's exit - The real reasons  (Read 118310 times)

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Offline Dexter

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2021, 08:52:19 AM »
Raising awareness of innocence fraud - nothing whatsoever to do with axes 🙄

the line you have been saying for... how many years now. May not be clear in your mind but its clear.

Offline mrswah

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Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2021, 09:18:19 AM »
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/hideous-murder-miscarriage-justice-still-15338340


The above case was officially a MOJ, not an innocence fraud.

This thread is supposed to be about Sandra Lean's exit , not about Michael O'Brien. Anyone who wants to begin a new thread about the murder of Philip Saunders is welcome to do so.

Offline Dexter

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2021, 09:19:51 AM »
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/hideous-murder-miscarriage-justice-still-15338340


The above case was officially a MOJ, not an innocence fraud.

This thread is supposed to be about Sandra Lean's exit , not about Michael O'Brien. Anyone who wants to begin a new thread about the murder of Philip Saunders is welcome to do so.

Thank you for being decent and posting that he is innocent.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2021, 09:21:23 AM »
Michael O’Brien
Disappointed to hear Dr Sandra Lean being slagged off in regards to the Luke Mitchell case if it wasn't for Dr Sandra Lean The book would not have been written and the documentary film wouldn't have come about.
Some very ungrateful people out there I must say and I stand with Dr Sandra Lean.

Jane Metcalfe
I absolutely stand with Dr Sandra Lean too Michael A O'Brien, there are only a very small handful of people in this country who are as amazing, as knowledgeable , as dedicated, as gentle + as strong as Sandra is x


 *&^^&

Murder of Diana Garbutt ➡️ http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11718.msg614766#msg614766

You’re putting forward Neil Wilby as a credible individual? This individual?

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/malicious-blogger-neil-wilby-banned-7972575
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Dexter

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2021, 09:27:03 AM »
You’re putting forward Neil Wilby as a credible individual? This individual?

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/malicious-blogger-neil-wilby-banned-7972575

Anything is possible it seems . Credible? Erm no.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2021, 12:47:25 PM »
You’re putting forward Neil Wilby

’Dr Truthseeker loses her moral compass’

https://neilwilby.com/2020/06/22/dr-truthseeker-loses-her-moral-compass/

Highlight something from his blog ⬆️ you disagree with

Neil Wilby stated,
Dr Lean is best known for her support of the unsuccessful innocence campaigns involving two other murderers, Luke Mitchell and Gordon Park.

He doesn’t appear to be aware of the depth of Sandra Leans involvement in Simon Halls innocence fraud campaign (as it turned out to be)

But I suspect this is his perception possibly based on what’s available on the WWW.

And he may not have read ‘No Smoke’ ?

or be aware of the material once posted to the WAP website - given the entire site was taken down http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=442.msg428172#msg428172

What lessons, if any, did Sandra Lean learn following the exposure of Simon Halls guilt in 2012/2013?

15th November 2010
Sandra Lean
‘I am finished with MoJ work. I intended to bow out in October, but was talked around by many people at the UAI day. That was a mistake. I will finish Luke's case, and that's it. I have nothing left to give.


1st January 2011 - re Simon Hall’s appeal verdict
Sandra Lean - ‘skeleton statements’
Conviction overturned, no re-trial

We are obviously delighted that the Court of Appeal has finally recognised what we have been telling them  all along – Simon was always innocent of this crime. There will be many issues to be addressed in the coming months, including questions regarding why evidence pointing to other suspects was never properly investigated, and why it has taken so long to get to this stage. Bearing in mind that the real perpetrators may yet be brought to trial, and they deserve a fair trial, which is something not afforded to Simon, I cannot go into too much detail about the other evidence at this time. However, should the authorities fail to re-open the investigation into Mrs Albert’s death and pursue the real murderers, then we will not hesitate to make public everything we have uncovered. One way or another, the whole truth will come out, we will make sure of it.

Conviction quashed, Re-trial ordered.
‘Although we are pleased that the Court of Appeal has finally recognised that the conviction of Simon was flawed, we are disappointed in the decision to stage a re-trial. Although I am unable to say too much at this stage, the CPS knew about several other pieces of evidence pointing away from Simon and towards another perpetrator right from the beginning of this case.
It is shameful that it has taken this long for them to admit this conviction was unsafe, and an outrage that an innocent  man must remain in prison awaiting another trial, when the original case against him has collapsed. Simon has already lost more than eight years of his life to this disgrace, and now must wait for the system to set up yet another ordeal in his fight to prove his innocence.
However, we are confident that the re-trial will exonerate Simon completely, and he will finally walk out of prison the way he walked in – innocent.
Sandra Lean, who featured Simon’s case in her book “No Smoke” said this morning, “What today’s  decision means is that the British Justice system would rather allow murderers to walk among us, and innocent men to languish in jails for crimes they did not commit, than simply admit they got it wrong. Given that the DPP himself said that without the fibre evidence, there was no case, this re-trial appears to be nothing more than a face-saving exercise from a prosecution machine that cannot accept its own failings. Perhaps the best that can be said about it is that it offers the opportunity for Simon to finally clear his name.”


Conviction Upheld
This decision is an affront to justice. The CPS knows that there was another burglary that evening in Capel. They know that the SOCOs went directly from  that crime scene to the murder scene. They know that there was DNA on the knife that did not belong to Simon, that the original fibre investigation concluded no match for the fibres, and that the jury was misled into believing that the knife that was used to kill Mrs Albert must have come from an opened drawer in her own kitchen.
They also know that another man confessed to this murder. So why do they insist on keeping an innocent man in prison, and refusing to acknowledge the existence of this other evidence? What can possibly be gained by allowing the real perpetrators to remain free and unpunished?
We will not rest until the whole truth of this case has been made public, and that includes the collusion and cover-up which has allowed this gross miscarriage of justice to persist for so long, and which, sadly, in light of today’s decision, will be allowed to continue.
We will never give up the fight for justice for Simon. The truth will come out – all of it. The DPP himself said that without the fibre evidence, there was no case. The fibre evidence has now been discredited – why is Simon to remain in prison for another man’s crime?
Sandra Lean, who featured Simon’s case in her book “No Smoke” said this morning, “This is a dark day for British Justice. This decision tells us that the justice system in this country would rather allow murderers to walk among us, and innocent men to languish in prison for crimes they did not commit, than simply admit, “We got it wrong.” Any other industry behaving in this way would be closed down – the justice industry is answerable to no-one. The fight for Simon Hall’s freedom goes on.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 09:16:43 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2021, 01:57:55 PM »
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/hideous-murder-miscarriage-justice-still-15338340


The above case was officially a MOJ, not an innocence fraud.


An MOJ does not equate to factual innocence

The Murder of Philip Saunders 1987
Related allegations and complaints made by Michael O’BRIEN
⬇️
http://swplive.blob.core.windows.net/wordpress-uploads/S731-Report-Operations-Fortitude-and-Resolute-finalised.pdf


An MOJ is said to be a ‘breach of the carriage of justice

Adam’s para 116

 ‘Innocence as such is not a concept known to our criminal justice system

« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 03:54:54 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline rulesapply

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2021, 02:30:46 PM »
Interesting that you didn’t ask Parky for proof regarding his/her ‘judge’s direction’ claim. I’m sure the forum would appreciate a little balance from you when it comes to harassment.

 I have patience, faithlilly. One question at a time. I'm still waiting for the first answer.

Offline mrswah

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Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #68 on: July 07, 2021, 05:15:08 PM »
An MOJ does not equate to factual innocence

The Murder of Philip Saunders 1987
Related allegations and complaints made by Michael O’BRIEN
⬇️
http://swplive.blob.core.windows.net/wordpress-uploads/S731-Report-Operations-Fortitude-and-Resolute-finalised.pdf


An MOJ is said to be a ‘breach of the carriage of justice

Adam’s para 116

 ‘Innocence as such is not a concept known to our criminal justice system

Thank you, Nicholas.  When I have time, I promise to read it all !!

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #69 on: July 07, 2021, 06:22:44 PM »
Anything is possible it seems . Credible? Erm no.

It would appear that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2021, 08:06:39 PM »
Highlight something from his blog ⬆️ you disagree with

Neil Willy stated,
Dr Lean is best known for her support of the unsuccessful innocence campaigns involving two other murderers, Luke Mitchell and Gordon Park.

He doesn’t appear to be aware of the depth of Sandra Leans involvement in Simon Halls innocence fraud campaign (as it turned out to be)

But I suspect this is his perception possibly based on what’s available on the WWW.

And he may not have read ‘No Smoke’ ?

or be aware of the material once posted to the WAP website - given the entire site was taken down http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=442.msg428172#msg428172

One's critical thinking skills may have been enough for her thesis to merit a pass - they are not credible in the real world though, are they? When one takes on board the word of known liars and works back from this. I mentioned before about the rotten apples spoiling the way our system works for others. Of those who have genuinely been wrongly accused/convicted, mixed in with those playing the system to the max. And we have the same thing happening here do we not? - When one is promoting liars, rightfully accused/convicted people along with those who are genuine.

And it is unsurprising why many discussions are overrun by those promoting this case as a possible MOJ, with misinformation and downright lies. For the truth in this case could not be any clearer, that Luke Mitchell was all but banged to rights. There was no damning forensic evidence. That there was an abundance of circumstantial evidence of which only a fraction was used - For the Crown to built their case from. And they did an outstanding Job in having this case as watertight as possible. For the avenues for appeals held no merit, they failed. Those painstaking months of hard work, dotting every I and crossing every T. Here we are more than 16 yrs from that conviction and Luke Mitchell is still banged upl where he belongs.

And how easy it has been for that perfect audience who know very little of this case. To readily accept what has been put out in the book/documentary. Where some of the believers/audience are those who have genuinely fought/fighting wrongful convictions. It is at the very heart of them, they know first hand how the system can get it wrong. That they do not know Ms Lean, they have no reason to doubt the word that she speaks. It is this blind faith, not only with the afflicted but with others that have drawn this support. That the lack of knowledge of this case has by far been the easiest to manipulate. Of Scottish Law and disclosure where people can not see how far the evidence has been twisted.

But of where it matters most, of these years gone by since that conviction 16yrs ago. That all that has been managed is to write this story, this trios version of their case. Of these claims of seeking Justice and Truth? When what we have witnessed since the release of IB is anything but truthful measures? And I will mention again that article from the Herald some two years ago. Where Ms Lean stated clearly that there was a new legal team on board. That there were hopes of a fresh appeal. That there was evidence that may be lost if funds were not produced within that two year time frame. That the "Long Road to Justice" was already promised. And we are left wondering if it was just the usual hot air, to promote the book to gain funds. For this legal team vanished as quickly as it had been mentioned. That Ms Mitchell in her podcast had been far from honest also. As with Ms Lean in hers with simple things such as AB only being shown a picture of LM to Identify. These half truths to draw the viewer/reader in.

And here we are yet again. Those promises of wonderful things to come. Just over two months ago there was talk of something happening, that it was being kept hush hush - that the biggest impact was required. That all would be revealed very soon? And bang - the impact was that there was to be a massive divide, that Ms Lean was stepping down from spearheading anything. That the mention of this new legal team turned into Ms Lean being demanded to hand those case files over. That it has been discovered that Ms Mitchell had not been without electric, water nor bread and butter. That it became apparent that this tug at heart strings were mainly for purse strings, to fund the new charity? Thus the fund me sites were yet again taken down. And people may say, or certainly have been aware it was more of a front than anything, that it should not matter? But it does when honesty and truth are being promoted?

I had been reading Ms Leans thesis, and it is easy to spot where Ms Mitchell and Luke participated. One should not be surprised at the lies for they have been widely published over time. But I was drawn to the appeal Judges. Of how they had mistakenly said the search trio left from Easthouse's. And the mountains made out of this over time. Of how the trio, the murderer, his mother and friend have tried consistently to draw away from how prepped and ready LM was. That he had gotten ready and been on RDP within 9 mins of that call to the police. We have already witnessed the blatant lies. Of search trios walking from the very top of Mayfield, of walking backwards and old arthritic grannies. Which should be enough for people to sit up and think why? Why are these people lying for there is only one reason for these lies, that there has only ever been one reason for all the lies - to hide the truth. That of which can not be changed, no matter how hard one tries, how many lies are told -That LM filled Ms Lean head with lies, of his actions and whereabouts that evening. That there is only one reason as to why he was on this path prior to 11pm, for he was prepped and ready. For he knew, being the murderer that the call/text would come, from Jodi's parents looking for their daughter.

To then grasp onto this error by the appeals judges. Claiming they either knew more and had slipped up (that massive conspiracy theory). Which in turn meant the search trio had lied under oath ( I know, the irony!) That it would explain why the search trio had gotten to this path quickly? I know the irony again, for there was none quicker than LM. So we have the lies, the Judges and this conspiracy theory in an attempt to cover up the lies of the Mitchells. The other irony of making claim to this being a whopper of an error by the appeal Judges? That Luke's defence advised them it meant nothing, which is bang on. But what of those massive whoppers of the errors Ms Lean told in "No Smoke".  Of "they mystery man that followed Jodi into the path" - That is what is classed as a grave error. For Ms Lean to claim she only had media reports to go by? That in the same book one makes a song and dance of there being no ID by AB of Jodi. Yet Ms Lean had Jodi being followed into this path? When there had never been any such report of Jodi walking into this path by the media, far less a mystery man following her onto it.

So all these claims, this strive to show people there was no case for LM to answer to? That he was somehow singled out, fitted up with tunnel vision. Why all the lies? Why all the manipulation, the twists and turns. The consistent hopping from one foot to the next. The actual changing of testimony on the Mitchells behalf? When the truth is ones critical thinking was scarred from the off. In that 7 month period of calm prior to Mitchells arrest. That a massive part of this blight on our justice system stems from believing liars? Of Mitchell, Prout, Hall, Middleton, Parks and goodness knows who else? Who uses the honesty of those who were wrongfully convicted, who have suffered a terrible injustice by throwing these rotten apples in beside them. Is it not these very actions that cast dispersion, cause further problems for those who are indeed innocent? For these abusers of the system do cause problems for the honest and truthful amongst us.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #71 on: July 08, 2021, 03:02:29 PM »
One's critical thinking skills may have been enough for her thesis to merit a pass

I don’t agree and am of the view it should be investigated
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #72 on: July 08, 2021, 03:03:58 PM »
When one takes on board the word of known liars and works back from this. I mentioned before about the rotten apples spoiling the way our system works for others. Of those who have genuinely been wrongly accused/convicted, mixed in with those playing the system to the max.

What methodology are you using to separate the two?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #73 on: July 08, 2021, 03:08:40 PM »
And it is unsurprising why many discussions are overrun by those promoting this case as a possible MOJ,

How are you defining an ‘MOJ’ ?

And how are they defining an MOJ?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #74 on: July 08, 2021, 03:11:07 PM »
And how easy it has been for that perfect audience who know very little of this case.

And of ‘that perfect audience’ what is their understanding of an ‘MOJ’ ?

Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation