Author Topic: Sandra's exit - The real reasons  (Read 118295 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #75 on: July 08, 2021, 03:12:30 PM »
For the truth in this case could not be any clearer, that Luke Mitchell was all but banged to rights.

I concur
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline mrswah

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Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #76 on: July 08, 2021, 05:13:27 PM »
I don’t agree and am of the view it should be investigated

I don't believe it's up to any of us to question Sandra Lean's (or anybody's) qualifications.

They are not given lightly.

Offline Parky41

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #77 on: July 08, 2021, 07:31:27 PM »
Scrub that. Rushed response as I was heading out earlier.  Which was not quite addressing your questions. 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 11:36:19 PM by Parky41 »

Offline Parky41

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2021, 12:20:48 PM »
Scrub that. Rushed response as I was heading out earlier.  Which was not quite addressing your questions.


The comparison is in that of which is broadly understood. Where one of more people in the chain have breached something in law. We know all the usual/prominent areas, and we know it is virtually everyone of them that Ms Lean attempts to apply to this case. Police incompetence, eye witness testimony, unreliable witness testimony, perjury, incompetent defence, circumstantial evidence, media pressure/prejudice, human rights. Wrongful direction by the Judge and on it goes.

The one I would like to pick up on, as you highlighted before is that of Confirmation bias. It is this which I believe Ms Lean is guilty of. She made the decision that Luke Mitchell was innocent, uninvolved in the death of his girlfriend in that 7 month period of the calm before the storm. At at time when all three believed there would be no arrest. That there was and could not be evidence, the naivety and lack of understanding, around how time consuming the build up of circumstantial cases can be. That those preconceptions she had that were wrong.

One had already made their mind up, prior to knowing anything of the evidence. That at this point whilst colluding together they had built their own hypothesis around the others in this case. The mystery man, the duo, the brother and stranger. On the limited amount of information available. That Ms Leans information was added to by the Mitchell themselves. Of Luke's relationship with the duo and the Jones family.

That when that arrest did come around, she sought information to support the hypotheses already in place, the bias could not have been any stronger at this point. That everything that became known around the Mitchells, their evidence was completely played down, it did not support her hypothesis. And this was only to continue and added to, with the likes of SK, JaF and MK. Still downplaying everything around the Mitchells, of the clear evidence they had gave which was damning, the main part of why LM could not be eliminated.

And we know without a shadow of doubt she continued along this path for so long, how could one possibly backtrack? Those days of Jigsawman and onto "No Smoke". She had spent so long building up on this hypothesis, her case from those days prior to this arrest. Of using every means available to spread those theories around. To draw away from the evidence, the evidence that they the Mitchells gave.

And it really does all apply in reverse, of everything she attempts to pin onto the police she is actually guilty of herself, is she not? It has been her tunnel vision, her confirmation bias that has brought us to the present day. Of the questions she set herself from that completely biased viewpoint, as soon as she became involved with the Mitchells. Of then attempting to work through that standard list of breaches and badly applying them to this case. And it fails, thus why we border on ridicule, with this one officer out of three noting "with the boyfriend". That scraping to find wrong in others whilst blanking the Mitchells.

Of tying in cases where there has been a clear breach, where innocent people have suffered a MOJ and laying them alongside the Mitchell case. By using those comparisons to show her audience how it works. And for those who are innocent, it is easy to understand and take on board what Ms Lean  projects. That when people do not know this case, they easily come away with the proclamation of Innocence, of those breaches that are in effect all too simple are they not? - For there is blind faith in the author. They do not know the confirmation bias on which it has all been founded upon.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2021, 01:04:07 PM »

The comparison is in that of which is broadly understood. Where one of more people in the chain have breached something in law. We know all the usual/prominent areas, and we know it is virtually everyone of them that Ms Lean attempts to apply to this case. Police incompetence, eye witness testimony, unreliable witness testimony, perjury, incompetent defence, circumstantial evidence, media pressure/prejudice, human rights. Wrongful direction by the Judge and on it goes.

I strongly suspect if ALL of the case files Sandra Lean has/had (Did she keep a copy of one of those alleged purchased external hard drives for her reference?) in her possession we’re to be uploaded to the WWW there could be several possibly even many false narratives (as I view it) applied to the material contained within them
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #80 on: July 09, 2021, 01:07:26 PM »
I strongly suspect if ALL of the case files Sandra Lean has/had (Did she keep a copy of one of those alleged purchased external hard drives for her reference?) in her possession we’re to be uploaded to the WWW there could be several possibly even many false narratives (as I view it) applied to the material contained within them

She gave the impression over the years she couldn’t recall a lot of what was contained in those case files she used to draw on

If her memory were as poor as the impression she appeared to give - how will she remember ALL of the details for future reference if ever required ?

I’ve not read her second book but if as you say it only contains around 5% of the actual facts of the case papers (I have no reason to doubt what you say on this as this point) how will she be able to reference/recall the other 95% ?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 01:10:38 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2021, 01:13:24 PM »
The one I would like to pick up on, as you highlighted before is that of Confirmation bias. It is this which I believe Ms Lean is guilty of. She made the decision that Luke Mitchell was innocent, uninvolved in the death of his girlfriend in that 7 month period of the calm before the storm. At at time when all three believed there would be no arrest. That there was and could not be evidence, the naivety and lack of understanding, around how time consuming the build up of circumstantial cases can be. That those preconceptions she had that were wrong.

One had already made their mind up, prior to knowing anything of the evidence. That at this point whilst colluding together they had built their own hypothesis around the others in this case. The mystery man, the duo, the brother and stranger. On the limited amount of information available. That Ms Leans information was added to by the Mitchell themselves. Of Luke's relationship with the duo and the Jones family.

That when that arrest did come around, she sought information to support the hypotheses already in place, the bias could not have been any stronger at this point. That everything that became known around the Mitchells, their evidence was completely played down, it did not support her hypothesis. And this was only to continue and added to, with the likes of SK, JaF and MK. Still downplaying everything around the Mitchells, of the clear evidence they had gave which was damning, the main part of why LM could not be eliminated.

And we know without a shadow of doubt she continued along this path for so long, how could one possibly backtrack? Those days of Jigsawman and onto "No Smoke". She had spent so long building up on this hypothesis, her case from those days prior to this arrest. Of using every means available to spread those theories around. To draw away from the evidence, the evidence that they the Mitchells gave.

Sandra Lean had a choice

Her behaviour initially may have stemmed from her ‘confirmation bias’ but I don’t view this to be the cause of why it continued
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 01:15:54 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #82 on: July 09, 2021, 01:21:18 PM »
And it really does all apply in reverse, of everything she attempts to pin onto the police she is actually guilty of herself, is she not? It has been her tunnel vision, her confirmation bias that has brought us to the present day.

As I said it may have stemmed from her ‘confirmation bias’ in the early months/years but I don’t consider confirmation bias played a part after so many of the cases/campaigns she was involved with turned out to be clear examples of innocence fraud

Id be interested to hear what she learned following her Social Sciences (Psychology and Sociology) degree in 2000, if anything, and whether or not she forgot it all ?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 02:05:47 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2021, 02:10:37 PM »

it is easy to understand and take on board what Ms Lean  projects

I stopped attempting to ‘understand and take on board ‘ anything she had to say some years ago

SL
Quote
Stephanie claims she wants me to revise my book, and has spent 16 pages of posts refusing to give me the accurate information with which I could do so!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8086.msg384561.html#msg384561

There was already a wealth of ‘accurate information’ in the public domain re Simon Hall (And there was a wealth on the Bamber forum where she was a member and regularly posted 🙄) by the time she stated the above

But she gave me the strong impression she wasn’t really interested in the truth or justice

Gaslighting, triangulation, smear campaigns - these are some of the tools used by toxic & manipulative abusers

They use a plethora of diversionary tactics that distort the reality of their victims and deflect responsibility.’

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/20-diversion-tactics-highly-manipulative-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-to-silence-you-part-i#.WRONGVdW[Name removed]I

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/diversion-tactics-highly-manipulative-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-to-silence-you-part-ii#.WUiQbVdW[Name removed]I

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/diversion-tactics-highly-manipulative-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-to-silence-you-part-iii

Most importantly, toxic abusers love to maintain control in whatever way they can.’

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/diversion-tactics-highly-manipulative-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-to-silence-you-part-iv


Remember this ➡️ http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8086.msg384700.html#msg384700

Sandra Lean - 2010

"My motivation has been called into question, my honesty and integrity trashed, all because I chose to devote seven years of my life trying to help people. Yes, I know you were at the centre of a hate campaign, but that wasn't my doing and I played no part in it whatsoever - nobody could ever have used a single word I had said about you, because there was nothing to use.

" what hurts is that you could not step back, knowing me as I thought you did, and ask yourself, is there perhaps another explanation for this. Nope, instant public condemnation, in the belief that you were being attacked, when, in fact, I was trying to defend you.

That your words are being used to paint me as dishonest and unreliable, and that in turn is being used to undermine Luke's case, is probably one of the worst experiences in all of this. I thought you were my friend.

There was absolutely no intention to 'scapegoat' you for anything

My post was an attempt to take the wind out of his sails by saying, Yes, Stephanie did talk to John, but not in the sinister/negative way he is trying to portray it. What John has done is take an innocent mistake by Stephanie and turn it into a weapon for him to use against others


« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 02:17:38 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #84 on: July 09, 2021, 02:42:26 PM »
That when that arrest did come around, she sought information to support the hypotheses already in place, the bias could not have been any stronger at this point. That everything that became known around the Mitchells, their evidence was completely played down

Not in 2014 to me it wasn’t

And I shared much of what she told me with others - especially in the lead up to Simon Halls inquest
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Parky41

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #85 on: July 09, 2021, 05:15:50 PM »
Sandra Lean had a choice

Her behaviour initially may have stemmed from her ‘confirmation bias’ but I don’t view this to be the cause of why it continued

Of course there were choices but having gone down so many roads, different cases, Simons included - Admitting failure was/is not going to happen? For it is not seen as failure upon herself, is it? That is the problem as I see it.

Her personal idiosyncrasies are somewhat renowned are they not? The strength she strives in being blameless is, paradoxically, also her weakness? As we have seen in recent times, resulting in this retreat, for now. The same retreat that has happened at other points in time.

Whilst others my feel your objections against Ms Lean are unwarranted, I for the most part don't. I have made it very clear what my stance is, I make no bones over it. There are no room for lies in those claiming to seek truth?!

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #86 on: July 09, 2021, 06:44:07 PM »
Of course there were choices but having gone down so many roads, different cases, Simons included - Admitting failure was/is not going to happen? For it is not seen as failure upon herself, is it? That is the problem as I see it.

Her personal idiosyncrasies are somewhat renowned are they not? The strength she strives in being blameless is, paradoxically, also her weakness? As we have seen in recent times, resulting in this retreat, for now. The same retreat that has happened at other points in time.

Whilst others my feel your objections against Ms Lean are unwarranted, I for the most part don't. I have made it very clear what my stance is, I make no bones over it. There are no room for lies in those claiming to seek truth?!

I absolutely agree. The judge’s direction claim was my particular favourite.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline rulesapply

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #87 on: July 09, 2021, 10:18:26 PM »
I absolutely agree. The judge’s direction claim was my particular favourite.

I agree too.

Offline rulesapply

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #88 on: July 09, 2021, 10:20:18 PM »
I agree too.

I mean, I agree too with Ps statement.

Offline rulesapply

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #89 on: July 09, 2021, 10:53:49 PM »
I don't believe it's up to any of us to question Sandra Lean's (or anybody's) qualifications.

They are not given lightly.

mrswah, I want to be really clear here. I have never asked anyone for proof of educational qualifications. I have asked if certain people are allowed to talk for others who, apparently, are unable to speak for themselves for whatever reason. Because the information has been presented as second hand information I asked for proof.  Never once have I asked anyone for proof of qualifications. Others have turned their question into a "joke" question, not a serious  issue and have never been pulled up for BS. Perhaps if, from now on, I say that none of my questions are serious ones,  I'll be allowed too? As for SL showing proof of anything,  of course the author should. If not,, why not? What's to hide? Not in the public domain so I can't give you proof, illegal for me to show you proof...... Then, if that's the case, why expect people to believe? Blind faith is cult stuff. Why doesn't SL wait until she can show the proof before she whips up a crowd? I'll tell you why,  IMO, because she whips up a crowd that needs nothing more than being whipped up.  They don't require proof. This is a cult. IMO.