Author Topic: Sandra's exit - The real reasons  (Read 118214 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Paranoid Android

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #330 on: July 21, 2021, 12:21:35 PM »
Any way you look at it, SL & SF have made a name for themselves on the back of this case.

Offline rulesapply

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #331 on: July 21, 2021, 12:38:46 PM »
Any way you look at it, SL & SF have made a name for themselves on the back of this case.

Agreed. Don't know about you but I had heard of neither, in a professional capacity, until recently..

Offline Parky41

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #332 on: July 21, 2021, 12:46:46 PM »
Is it courage, or is it a way of making a name and career for oneself?  I wonder….

 All down to perception. Where exactly has Ms Lean been brave? Ms Lean has not spent years, tirelessly campaigning away for Mitchell. She has spent most of those years as a student. Goal? To become a budding criminologist/author. This two way street of give and take. This high profile case of using controversary to gain attention. Of trying to push out that Mitchell could be innocent. Attempting to show that a MOJ may have taken place, in any format. Right down to a technical error. Where she has attempted to tick every single box. Based upon half truths, misinformation and downright lies. All done on the back of pretence, of pushing out some sense of false worth.

Devious and deceitful - very brave components. are they not? This latest debacle yet again, of Ovens. Of myself stating several weeks ago of Ovens being a witness at court in response to WW. I spend no time tirelessly at points sourcing, as one of the main points I try to enforce, is that Lean does not do this. I have no interest in whether people choose to believe the Crowns case, or of other information that has come to light over these years through many discussions. Of what I myself gained in knowledge whilst studying. To show to people, that whilst Lean may claim to have this knowledge, of pulling those rabbits out of a hat, by way of this 5% verbatim. She is proving nothing, no context. That her assumptions and narrative are not the missing context. That lying by omission only works for those foolish enough to put blind faith in something, the unknown.

Another area I have tried to highlight is this fallacy of Ms Lean holding everything in her hands. Nonsense. Which had been getting touted out before "No Smoke" was written, of those blatant half truths in the book. Of "careful examination of witness statements" - The half truth, that Ms Lean had witnessed hearing, parts of witness testimony. Which morphed itself into that false premise, of actually having those statements. And one can work themselves right up to IB. Through every discussion, every claim made prior to this. That fallacy again. That in her hands she held everything upon this case. When all she has ever had is DF's hand me downs along with any media reports, and whatever has been fed direct by the Mitchells. Fed to her at a time, they, the murderer, his mother and self, believed there would be no arrest. Where she has built upon those shaky foundations borne of lies, and added to them. By using this imaginary power tool, to fool people, to gain support, support for the half truths, misinformation and downright lies.

That complete false premise that the book is "The true story of the murder of Jodi Jones" where by way of deceit, Ms Lean has done nothing more than tarnish the memory of this girl. By way of that misinformation, half truths and lies. Where those foolish enough believe every word on the basis of that lie. That she has held everything on this case, thus accept every wrongful claim about the police, the Jones family, other witnesses and on it goes. Over LM. Using this case, in it's notoriety has she not, to pave the way for her own goals. To become some criminologist/author. To be recognised. For is is certainly not the truth that she seeks, nor speaks.

Areas I have highlighted, just a couple. Going to start with Ovens here. Of what I have always said. That what Ms Lean has always had is limited. She did not attend the trial, and she does not have the full trial transcripts. To only now, bring to light, after it being pushed in her face (yet again) by way of getting directly asked. That she is claiming to have been unaware that Ovens had been a witness at trial. That she had not found anything herself through "MSM" or the trial transcripts. And onto Mr Kelly's statement of alibi. Onto those phone logs, and onto the elimination of people in the investigation. Where on the latter she uses JF as way of her half truth. That due to it being in a statement, of him making this claim. Not the police, not any direct information and knowledge of the actual investigation. She has applied this notion across the board. As she has done with most everything. And it is all hogwash.

She has never had near enough of anything, to be making any claims that she does. It is all founded upon lies. Directly from the Mitchells in that calm before the storm period in time. Where she has built from this, seeking only to prove her self. For gain in this two way street, based from that clear collusion of bias between those three people. A liar, plus another liar and onto the third. - You could not get a better combination of craws together. Where it could not be clearer to those not readily fooled, that they have become mere puppets for these people. Spreading those lies, spreading that hate upon Jodi's family, the police, these others, the system. Passing the blame from Mitchell upon it being Jodi's fault that day, from his mother for also blaming Jodi and onto Lean. Whom we know carries no responsibility, no blame. As we see yet again with Ovens. Where she knew fine well he had testified at court. She has let this all, as she does grown it's arms and legs. Until pushed to the point, of passing the buck.

Offline rulesapply

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #333 on: July 21, 2021, 12:58:04 PM »
All down to perception. Where exactly has Ms Lean been brave? Ms Lean has not spent years, tirelessly campaigning away for Mitchell. She has spent most of those years as a student. Goal? To become a budding criminologist/author. This two way street of give and take. This high profile case of using controversary to gain attention. Of trying to push out that Mitchell could be innocent. Attempting to show that a MOJ may have taken place, in any format. Right down to a technical error. Where she has attempted to tick every single box. Based upon half truths, misinformation and downright lies. All done on the back of pretence, of pushing out some sense of false worth.

Devious and deceitful - very brave components. are they not? This latest debacle yet again, of Ovens. Of myself stating several weeks ago of Ovens being a witness at court in response to WW. I spend no time tirelessly at points sourcing, as one of the main points I try to enforce, is that Lean does not do this. I have no interest in whether people choose to believe the Crowns case, or of other information that has come to light over these years through many discussions. Of what I myself gained in knowledge whilst studying. To show to people, that whilst Lean may claim to have this knowledge, of pulling those rabbits out of a hat, by way of this 5% verbatim. She is proving nothing, no context. That her assumptions and narrative are not the missing context. That lying by omission only works for those foolish enough to put blind faith in something, the unknown.

Another area I have tried to highlight is this fallacy of Ms Lean holding everything in her hands. Nonsense. Which had been getting touted out before "No Smoke" was written, of those blatant half truths in the book. Of "careful examination of witness statements" - The half truth, that Ms Lean had witnessed hearing, parts of witness testimony. Which morphed itself into that false premise, of actually having those statements. And one can work themselves right up to IB. Through every discussion, every claim made prior to this. That fallacy again. That in her hands she held everything upon this case. When all she has ever had is DF's hand me downs along with any media reports, and whatever has been fed direct by the Mitchells. Fed to her at a time, they, the murderer, his mother and self, believed there would be no arrest. Where she has built upon those shaky foundations borne of lies, and added to them. By using this imaginary power tool, to fool people, to gain support, support for the half truths, misinformation and downright lies.

That complete false premise that the book is "The true story of the murder of Jodi Jones" where by way of deceit, Ms Lean has done nothing more than tarnish the memory of this girl. By way of that misinformation, half truths and lies. Where those foolish enough believe every word on the basis of that lie. That she has held everything on this case, thus accept every wrongful claim about the police, the Jones family, other witnesses and on it goes. Over LM. Using this case, in it's notoriety has she not, to pave the way for her own goals. To become some criminologist/author. To be recognised. For is is certainly not the truth that she seeks, nor speaks.

Areas I have highlighted, just a couple. Going to start with Ovens here. Of what I have always said. That what Ms Lean has always had is limited. She did not attend the trial, and she does not have the full trial transcripts. To only now, bring to light, after it being pushed in her face (yet again) by way of getting directly asked. That she is claiming to have been unaware that Ovens had been a witness at trial. That she had not found anything herself through "MSM" or the trial transcripts. And onto Mr Kelly's statement of alibi. Onto those phone logs, and onto the elimination of people in the investigation. Where on the latter she uses JF as way of her half truth. That due to it being in a statement, of him making this claim. Not the police, not any direct information and knowledge of the actual investigation. She has applied this notion across the board. As she has done with most everything. And it is all hogwash.

She has never had near enough of anything, to be making any claims that she does. It is all founded upon lies. Directly from the Mitchells in that calm before the storm period in time. Where she has built from this, seeking only to prove her self. For gain in this two way street, based from that clear collusion of bias between those three people. A liar, plus another liar and onto the third. - You could not get a better combination of craws together. Where it could not be clearer to those not readily fooled, that they have become mere puppets for these people. Spreading those lies, spreading that hate upon Jodi's family, the police, these others, the system. Passing the blame from Mitchell upon it being Jodi's fault that day, from his mother for also blaming Jodi and onto Lean. Whom we know carries no responsibility, no blame. As we see yet again with Ovens. Where she knew fine well he had testified at court. She has let this all, as she does grown it's arms and legs. Until pushed to the point, of passing the buck.

And NONE of the appeals based on Luke Mitchell's innocence.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #334 on: July 21, 2021, 01:05:48 PM »
There have to be easier ways of making a name and a career for oneself, IMO.!
I disagree.  I think attaching yourself to a high profile case and making yourself the spokesperson for a famous murderer  is a pretty quick route to notoriety. So she gets online abuse?  Who doesn’t frankly?  Is every footballer, popstar, reality tv star and member of the Royal Family also brave in your view?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 02:27:10 PM by Vertigo Swirl »
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline rulesapply

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #335 on: July 21, 2021, 01:13:35 PM »
I doubt she has put everything else on the back burner!

I agree she's not a fool.  She is standing up for what she believes in, ie that Luke Mitchell did not murder Jodi Jones.  Now, she might be wrong, but she is willing to take that risk, and all the abuse that goes with it.

I wouldn't be as brave!

Brave? Judy Jones is brave.

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Total likes: 802
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #336 on: July 21, 2021, 03:42:19 PM »
Brave? Judy Jones is brave.

I don't think I could be anything like as brave as Judy Jones, either!

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Total likes: 802
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #337 on: July 21, 2021, 03:47:08 PM »
I disagree.  I think attaching yourself to a high profile case and making yourself the spokesperson for a famous murderer  is a pretty quick route to notoriety. So she gets online abuse?  Who doesn’t frankly?  Is every footballer, popstar, reality tv star and member of the Royal Family also brave in your view?

I believe she has had "in person" abuse too. 

Yes, I think she is brave. I don't agree with the majority of people on this forum who denigrate her efforts, but that's ok. I believe what I believe, until I see incontrovertable proof that everything she says is lies.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #338 on: July 21, 2021, 03:51:46 PM »
I believe she has had "in person" abuse too. 

Yes, I think she is brave. I don't agree with the majority of people on this forum who denigrate her efforts, but that's ok. I believe what I believe, until I see incontrovertable proof that everything she says is lies.
I doubt anyone is claiming that everything she says is lies are they?  That's a separate issue.  The question was more about her motives I thought.  She probably thinks she's doing good work.  Most "do-gooders" do, but is it utterly selfless and brave of her, or does she get something out of it on a personal level which is nothing about justice and everything to do with enjoying the attention and carving out a career for herself in the process?  I'm not accusing btw, only asking questions...  ?{)(**
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Rusty

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #339 on: July 21, 2021, 04:12:47 PM »
I don't.  How long does it take to knock someone either unconscious or semi conscious and kill them? The clean up? I reckon LM had help. He must have had help.

Aye his mother.


Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Total likes: 802
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #340 on: July 21, 2021, 04:22:01 PM »
I doubt anyone is claiming that everything she says is lies are they?  That's a separate issue.  The question was more about her motives I thought.  She probably thinks she's doing good work.  Most "do-gooders" do, but is it utterly selfless and brave of her, or does she get something out of it on a personal level which is nothing about justice and everything to do with enjoying the attention and carving out a career for herself in the process?  I'm not accusing btw, only asking questions...  ?{)(**

I expect she does get something out of it on a personal level, just as I did when I was teaching kids with special needs. 

Who is totally selfless in this world?  I don't expect her to be, but I would be extremely disappointed if I were to discover that she is the liar that some people say she is.

But, I don't believe she is!

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Total likes: 802
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #341 on: July 21, 2021, 04:23:00 PM »
Aye his mother.

And do you have evidence of this?

Offline Dexter

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #342 on: July 21, 2021, 04:48:37 PM »
Any way you look at it, SL & SF have made a name for themselves on the back of this case.

If SL and SF made a name for themselves off the back of the case, what has JH done?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 05:00:29 PM by Dexter »

Offline Rusty

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #343 on: July 21, 2021, 04:52:36 PM »
And do you have evidence of this?

Oh so now you want to reply and start making demands for evidence. But when the shoe is on the other foot, you suddenly go into lurker mode.

His mother helped or witnessed the burning of the jacket, she most certainly cleaned up the house and lied for him, proved in court. I don't need to provide evidence, I have what a lot of Mitchell apologists seems to be lacking, common sense.


Offline Dexter

Re: Sandra's exit - The real reasons
« Reply #344 on: July 21, 2021, 05:01:11 PM »
Oh so now you want to reply and start making demands for evidence. But when the shoe is on the other foot, you suddenly go into lurker mode.

His mother helped or witnessed the burning of the jacket, she most certainly cleaned up the house and lied for him, proved in court. I don't need to provide evidence, I have what a lot of Mitchell apologists seems to be lacking, common sense.

Not true.