"Laughable eyewitness testimony"

[Chris_Halkides]

Concerning the photographic lineup, if Donald Findlay had been in error about the length of Luke's hair, his claim could have easily been disproved using a photograph of Luke at the time of the murder at the trial.  In a portion of the documents relating to the 2008 appeal (at Murderpedia), it stated, "She had had only a fleeting glance of the male and, while she had picked out the appellant's photograph from a number of others, there were serious questions about the reliability of the procedures which had been adopted by the police - by the use of photographs at all, by the nature of the particular photographs used and by the failure to hold an identification parade."  I infer that the 2008 appeal panel did not dispute the multiple problems with Ms. Bryson's identification that Donald Findlay highlighted; rather, they believed that the instructions to the jury on this point were sufficient.  Obviously I disagree.

[Nicholas]

Concerning the photographic lineup, if Donald Findlay had been in error about the length of Luke's hair, his claim could have easily been disproved using a photograph of Luke at the time of the murder

Did the jury see photographs of killer Luke Mitchell taken on the 1st July 2003 whilst at Dalkeith police station?

[Nicholas]

I’ve often wondered what length Luke’s hair was at the actual time of the murder

Why haven’t f........s Scott Forbes and Sandra Lean published a photo of psycho killer Luke Mitchell in the paper suit Corinne Mitchell referred to seeing him wearing when she arrived at Dalkeith police station on 1st July 2003?

[Nicholas]

Concerning the photographic lineup, if Donald Findlay had been in error about the length of Luke's hair, his claim could have easily been disproved using a photograph of Luke at the time of the murder

Psychopathic killer Luke Mitchell was taken to Dalkeith police station sometime after 01:00hrs

Apparently he was photographed sometime during the morning of the 1st July 2003

By whom and at what time has not been published - nor have any photographs

According to Scott Forbes;

“…at 01:00 a.m. was taken to Dalkeith Police Station where he was stripped, photographed, and forensically examined

The series of photographs taken at Dalkeith police station have been hidden by the killer and his enablers for almost 20 years!

[Nicholas]

Roberta Glass is another guilt grifter

Roberta Glass exposes innocence fraud

Someone like Andrew Hammel is a “guilt grifter”

[Nicholas]

If I were giving a class in investigations.

You wrote
👇
Pasquali and the rock
"Pasquali said that he had re-created the same conditions that were found in Romanelli's room at the time of the break-in. Pasquali said he constructed a window of the same size, with the same paint and the same type of glass, and threw the rock through it into a room with the same characteristics as Romanelli's room. Two video cameras -- one inside and one outside -- filmed the rock being thrown through the glass.

By analyzing the trajectory of the rock and the projection of the glass shards, Pasquali said he could "exclude that the glass could have been broken from the inside."" ABC News.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=363048&page=20

Did you see Peter Bull in 2007 on the BBC rough justice TV show on psycho killer Simon Hall?

[Chris_Halkides]

On page 129 of Innocents Betrayed Sandra Lean wrote, “The jogger was traced.  She said that she ran her “usual route” through Newbattle Abbey Crescent, turning left onto Newbattle Road…This is almost certainly the jogger of whom Ms Fleming and Mrs Walsh spoke…But they were clearly mistaken about seeing her running over the bridge, towards the Abbey, or having run past the youth…It’s important to note that , if the jogger was correct about the time (between twenty and a quarter to six) the time scale for Luke to be the murderer is impossible, at between 25 and 30 minutes.”

On page 131 of Innocents Betrayed Sandra Lean wrote, “Seven years later, a witness offered to provide a statement for the SCCRC application, stating that Mrs Walsh, in the week leading up to her first police statement was telling people that she and her sister-in-law had seen a youth on the Newbattle Road that night “at the entrance to the Abbey”—directly opposite where Luke was positively identified by others who knew him that evening and the evidence about the jogger placed the Fleming/Walsh sighting.”

In summary, there are two reasons for believing that whomever Ms. Fleming and Mrs. Walsh saw, it took place by Newbattle Abbey.

[Nicholas]

Knox/Sollecito

Self Confessed Train Robber Bert Kreischer & Innocence Fraudster & Psychopath Amanda Knox On Rudy Guede & Their Meeting On The Bottom Floor Downstairs In The Four Guys Apartment, The Weekend Of 20th/21st October 2007, Shamrocks Bar, Red Zone Nightclub, DJ Quentin Harris & The 5 Cannabis Plants

👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/06/28/self-confessed-train-robber-bert-kreischer-innocence-fraudster-psychopath-amanda-knox-on-rudy-guede-their-meeting-on-the-bottom-floor-downstairs-in-the-four-guys-apartment-shamrocks/

[Nicholas]

Roberta Glass exposes innocence fraud

Someone like Andrew Hammel is a “guilt grifter”

PART 1: Innocence Fraud Watch On Andrew Hammel & His II Part Quillette Article Headed “The Wrongful Exoneration of Adnan Syed”
👇
http://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2023/05/26/andrew-hammel-on-the-wrongful-exoneration-of-adnan-syed/

[Nicholas]

On page 129 of Innocents Betrayed Sandra Lean wrote, “The jogger was traced.  She said that she ran her “usual route” through Newbattle Abbey Crescent, turning left onto Newbattle Road…This is almost certainly the jogger of whom Ms Fleming and Mrs Walsh spoke…But they were clearly mistaken about seeing her running over the bridge, towards the Abbey, or having run past the youth…It’s important to note that , if the jogger was correct about the time (between twenty and a quarter to six) the time scale for Luke to be the murderer is impossible, at between 25 and 30 minutes.”

On page 131 of Innocents Betrayed Sandra Lean wrote, “Seven years later, a witness offered to provide a statement for the SCCRC application, stating that Mrs Walsh, in the week leading up to her first police statement was telling people that she and her sister-in-law had seen a youth on the Newbattle Road that night “at the entrance to the Abbey”—directly opposite where Luke was positively identified by others who knew him that evening and the evidence about the jogger placed the Fleming/Walsh sighting.”

In summary, there are two reasons for believing that whomever Ms. Fleming and Mrs. Walsh saw, it took place by Newbattle Abbey.

It’s pointless cherry picking tip-bits from Sandra Lean’s tip-bits, especially without seeing all of psycho killer Luke Mitchell’s evidence

[Chris_Halkides]

From the 2008 appeal “Once that inference [that Andrina Bryson saw Luke and Jodi] was drawn there was ample evidence, among the adminicles discussed in relation to sufficiency, to allow the jury reasonably to conclude that the deceased's killer was the appellant. We highlight only a few of these. There was evidence that he was next seen at the west end of the path about 50 minutes after having been seen by Mrs Bryson.”

Perhaps thinking of this passage, Sandra Lean wrote on page 133, “It would be stated at trial and in the appeal decision, that the acoounts of Ms Fleming and Mrs Walsh corroborated each other and were part of the basis upon which jurors were entitled to conclude that Andrina Bryson’s sighting was of Luke. It was never explained how two sightings, 55-70 minutes apart, of two completely different individuals, neither of whom matched known descriptions of Luke that night, corroborated anything.”

Given that Mrs. Walsh contaminated Ms. Fleming’s memory by showing her the newspaper photograph (as discussed upthread), no corroboration between them is possible. Nor is there any linkage between their evidence and the evidence of Ms. Bryson, as Sandra Lean pointed out. For one thing their descriptions do not match Luke; for another, they don't match each other.
__________________

[Chris_Halkides]

Rolfe wrote, "So the two women must have seen the jogger north of the road junction, which is 150 yards north of the bridge, not 200 yards past the end of the path, which would be about 200 yards south of the bridge.

This introduces an intriguing possibility. If the two women were mistaken about the position of the jogger, as they were, putting her at least 350 yards further back (south) along Newbattle Road than she actually was - and possibly more than that - could they equally well have been mistaken about where they saw the youth loitering on the left-hand side of the road? Could they have driven past the end of Newbattle Abbey Crescent, seen Luke there, then passed the jogger some little way further up Newbattle Road, but in retrospect moved the whole thing back some 500 yards? (And simply got the hair colour and the jacket and the footwear flat wrong.)

If that was Luke, at the end of Newbattle Abbey Crescent, at about 5.45, he couldn't have been the murderer, as there simply isn't enough time for everything to happen and for him to get back to that spot only 30 minutes after the killing. Of course the police didn't want that to be the case, they wanted Luke that 500 yards closer to the scene of the crime and somewhere other than where his own statement placed him, so they weren't going to pursue that one."
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12760325#post12760325

[faithlilly]

Rolfe wrote, "So the two women must have seen the jogger north of the road junction, which is 150 yards north of the bridge, not 200 yards past the end of the path, which would be about 200 yards south of the bridge.

This introduces an intriguing possibility. If the two women were mistaken about the position of the jogger, as they were, putting her at least 350 yards further back (south) along Newbattle Road than she actually was - and possibly more than that - could they equally well have been mistaken about where they saw the youth loitering on the left-hand side of the road? Could they have driven past the end of Newbattle Abbey Crescent, seen Luke there, then passed the jogger some little way further up Newbattle Road, but in retrospect moved the whole thing back some 500 yards? (And simply got the hair colour and the jacket and the footwear flat wrong.)

If that was Luke, at the end of Newbattle Abbey Crescent, at about 5.45, he couldn't have been the murderer, as there simply isn't enough time for everything to happen and for him to get back to that spot only 30 minutes after the killing. Of course the police didn't want that to be the case, they wanted Luke that 500 yards closer to the scene of the crime and somewhere other than where his own statement placed him, so they weren't going to pursue that one."
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12760325#post12760325

I’ve made this point several times. The evidence suggests that the youth they saw was Luke but nearer to Newbattle College than they claimed in court. The jacket in the sil’s first statements certainly sounds more like the silky bomber jacket Luke was known to have been wearing than a parka jacket.

[Chris_Halkides]

They did not get the color of Luke's boots or hair correct; that is one reason that I am of two minds on the question of whether or not they even saw him.  Yet it is strange how something of so little probative value is thought to be a major plank in the case.

One of my reasons for looking into this incident was to understand more clearly how the eyewitness testimony in the case went sideways.  Another was to compare and contrast with other cases in which there have been problematic identifications.  Mark Godsey wrote on pp. 124-125 of the book Blind Justice, "Of the first 325 DNA exonerations in the United States, 235, or 72 percent, involved mistaken eyewitness identification testimony."  On pp. 129-130 he continued, "Any lawyer like myself who specializes in wrongful conviction cases can provide dozens of examples where the witnesses changed their stories--their memories--over time to keep the train moving toward conviction.  I frequently saw this process at work when I was a prosecutor as well."  On p. 145 he wrote, “When I look back on the cases of the individuals the Ohio Innocence Project has exonerated and freed, I am struck by my first meetings with my clients in prison—before we had evidence proving them innocent.  A common comment I heard from them in these initial meetings was, ‘How did the prosecution get the witnesses to say all those things that weren’t true?’”  The whole chapter is enlightening with respect to this case.

[Chris_Halkides]

https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/2018/jun/18/dominant-witness-theory-how-eyewitness-identification-becomes-flawed/
"In a multi-witness crime scene, police generally interview witnesses separately, asking each for their version of events. Most witnesses, who are eager to cooperate with police, will provide this."

The police should have separated Steven Kelly, Janine Jones, and Alice Walker from each other immediately and taken their statements separately.