The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect

[The General]

I have no idea if she's a credible witness.  As she's dead it's not possible to ascertain if she saw CB trying to break into her apartment so her witness testimony is completely irrelevant now anyway.  IMO.

I wonder if HCW thinks her witness testimony is 'completely irrelevant now anyway' because she's dead, despite the fact that it places a man roughly matching his description literally upstairs from the scene of the crime mere days / weeks before, attempting to gain entry in the same manner he must think he used when taking MM?
Her being dead now is problematic, granted, but if both the PJ and the BKA discount such compelling testimony, maybe they're both incompetent (although this is a man [HCW] who seemingly,happily trusts the testimony of a career criminal in the midst of levering a plea bargain of sorts)

[Brietta]

I wonder if HCW thinks her witness testimony is 'completely irrelevant now anyway' because she's dead, despite the fact that it places a man roughly matching his description literally upstairs from the scene of the crime mere days / weeks before, attempting to gain entry in the same manner he must think he used when taking MM?
Her being dead now is problematic, granted, but if both the PJ and the BKA discount such compelling testimony, maybe they're both incompetent (although this is a man [HCW] who seemingly,happily trusts the testimony of a career criminal in the midst of levering a plea bargain of sorts)

Mrs Fenn was not asked for a description of the intruder to her home.

Not apparel.
Not approximation of his height or weight.
Not skin tone.
Not hair colouring or length.
Not if he had any distinguishing features.
Not if she had seen him around. etcetera - etcetera - etcetera

In fact not one single solitary feature which might connect him to Brueckner or to the subject of this thread.

Time to move on and back > to the topic.

[The General]

Mrs Fenn was not asked for a description of the intruder to her home.

Not apparel.
Not approximation of his height or weight.
Not skin tone.
Not hair colouring or length.
Not if he had any distinguishing features.
Not if she had seen him around. etcetera - etcetera - etcetera

In fact not one single solitary feature which might connect him to Brueckner or to the subject of this thread.

Time to move on and back > to the topic.

Nope. We're discussing this, as unpalatable it seems to be to you. This is bang on topic.
Let's get it right, she went to them.
Are you seriously suggesting that Mrs. Fenn's account of an intruder clambering through the window of the apartment above where MM went missing does not have 'one single solitary feature which might connect him to Brueckner or to the subject of this thread'?
Or are you taking exception because it's me discussing it? Because even you, gawd bless ya, can see the connection. You know she lived upstairs, right? I mean right upstairs - 2 metres away. So close, in fact, she could discern the sex and approximate age of the crying child that we now know to be accurate.
....although I can see why there's still a keenness to castigate her, dead or not. I get it.
Love it. The balance, the irony. It's almost unique in this case.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I wonder if HCW thinks her witness testimony is 'completely irrelevant now anyway' because she's dead, despite the fact that it places a man roughly matching his description literally upstairs from the scene of the crime mere days / weeks before, attempting to gain entry in the same manner he must think he used when taking MM?
Her being dead now is problematic, granted, but if both the PJ and the BKA discount such compelling testimony, maybe they're both incompetent (although this is a man [HCW] who seemingly,happily trusts the testimony of a career criminal in the midst of levering a plea bargain of sorts)

In terms of helping to secure a conviction Fenn's witness statement cannot be confirmed or tested or questioned therefore it is irrelevant IMO. 

[Vertigo Swirl]

Nope. We're discussing this, as unpalatable it seems to be to you. This is bang on topic.
Let's get it right, she went to them.
Are you seriously suggesting that Mrs. Fenn's account of an intruder clambering through the window of the apartment above where MM went missing does not have 'one single solitary feature which might connect him to Brueckner or to the subject of this thread'?
Or are you taking exception because it's me discussing it? Because even you, gawd bless ya, can see the connection. You know she lived upstairs, right? I mean right upstairs - 2 metres away. So close, in fact, she could discern the sex and approximate age of the crying child that we now know to be accurate.
....although I can see why there's still a keenness to castigate her, dead or not. I get it.
Love it. The balance, the irony. It's almost unique in this case.

OK - please supply her description of the intruder, and also her description of the crying child.

[The General]

OK - please supply her description of the intruder, and also her description of the crying child.

Why? Are you doubting these accounts exist?

[The General]

In terms of helping to secure a conviction Fenn's witness statement cannot be confirmed or tested or questioned therefore it is irrelevant IMO.

At least you think it's on topic and continue to discuss in a cordial manner.

[Vertigo Swirl]

At least you think it's on topic and continue to discuss in a cordial manner.

*pats self on head and basks in the warm glow generated by the General's approval*

[Vertigo Swirl]

Why? Are you doubting these accounts exist?

I can't remember one way or the other but you seem quite certain so, in the context of this discussion, why not remind us all of Fenn's exact description of the intruder and the crying child?

[Eleanor]

I can't remember one way or the other but you seem quite certain so, in the context of this discussion, why not remind us all of Fenn's exact description of the intruder and the crying child?

I don't think there are any.

[The General]

I don't think there are any.

Yeh, there are.

[Eleanor]

Yeh, there are.

Then produce them.

[The General]

Then produce them.

Shhh.....gotta be careful...I'm 'watched'
Apparently dredging up old ground is frowned upon......but here's a link to the statement you know exists and have undoubtedly read many times https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm
Keep it to yourself, but right down the bottom she mentions 'daughter', which I reckon most of you missed.
Mum's the word.


(or are we still saying all of  these statements are unreliable because they're translated? What's the current stance?)

[Vertigo Swirl]

Shhh.....gotta be careful...I'm 'watched'
Apparently dredging up old ground is frowned upon......but here's a link to the statement you know exists and have undoubtedly read many times https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm
Keep it to yourself, but right down the bottom she mentions 'daughter', which I reckon most of you missed.
Mum's the word.


(or are we still saying all of  these statements are unreliable because they're translated? What's the current stance?)

Great and now the description of the intruder?

[sadie]

Shhh.....gotta be careful...I'm 'watched'
Apparently dredging up old ground is frowned upon......but here's a link to the statement you know exists and have undoubtedly read many times https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm
Keep it to yourself, but right down the bottom she mentions 'daughter', which I reckon most of you missed.
Mum's the word.


(or are we still saying all of  these statements are unreliable because they're translated? What's the current stance?)

But according to Madeleine, Sean was crying too, wasn't he?   Why did Mrs Fenn hear only one child?

Or have I misremembered about Sean crying?  I think he was.