The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect

[Vertigo Swirl]

No, I didn't get it either. How would someone watching, prove that Gerry hadn't seen Jane walking past? Surely the only way to do that is if this witness was absolutely confident that Jane didn't walk past at all. In which case, the whole "lie" comes tumbling down anyway. So why does that prevent Gerry saying that he saw her? And, if someone was watching Gerry and Jez talking, how does lying about being stood elsewhere help, if this person watching (and Jez) knows where you were really stood?

Not exactly sure what the "theory" is meant to be in all this. Presumably the claim is that Jane never really walked past Gerry and Jez? The question then is, what would be the point in saying she did? If the need was to create a "phantom", why did it need to be at the particular time that Gerry and Jez were talking in the street? Why couldn't Jane just have said she saw the abductor just after Gerry got back? Why make this apparently "invented sighting" less credible by saying it took place with two other people there, neither of whom saw you, or this abductor, walking past? Isn't it actually more likely that Jez and Gerry were just too engrossed in chatting to notice?

Lots of questions I expect no sensible answers to.

I believe Faithlilly thinks it’s necessary for JT to have seen the “abductor” at the same time as she saw Gerry talking to Jez to prove that they were not the same person.   I don’t understand why she feels this is essential to the plot and the idea that all this complicated scheming was being communicated and agreed between these protagonists  in the short time from the trauma of finding a dead Madeleine to hiding her body and raising the alarm is all too silly for words.

[faithlilly]

He could be sure it was witnessed by someone. It was witnessed by Jez Wilkins! What sense would it make to deliberately lie about being the other side of the road knowing that Jez knew different?

Are you truly saying that Gerry is such an arrogant and narcissistic individual that when faced with evidence from two witnesses that he was not where he thought he was he doubles down on his recollection? That when doubling down on his recollection undermines his main witness Tanner he still does it? His daughter has just, according to him, been abducted but it means more to him to appear right rather than accept that he may be wrong.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Are you truly saying that Gerry is such an arrogant and narcissistic individual that when faced with evidence from two witnesses that he was not where he thought he was he doubles down on his recollection? That when doubling down on his recollection undermines his main witness Tanner he still does it? His daughter has just, according to him, been abducted but it means more to him to appear right rather than accept that he may be wrong.

It looks like you’re up to your old trick of putting words into people’s mouths again Faithlilly.  I do look forward to Para’s takedown of this your latest lame attempt at debate.

[sadie]

What behaviour SADIE?!!!  Sheesh... I've only linked to John's reconstructed images and shown JT's map!

I'm sure you're capable of finding the other two, so I'll leave that to you!

You know damned well what behaviour.  It has happened several times in a row now.

You suddenly appear out of the woodwork when I say anything.



You were charming to me when I was identifying and placing all those huge hearts painted on pillars, walls etc.,.   They seemed to be pointers for evil paedos directing them to where the sordid action was available behind Jeronimos magnificent Monastry in the streets of Belem, near Casa Pia boys home and the deaf and dumb, blind schools there.

You are the expert technical man on forum.

Where have all the heart photos gone from forum?  Who has removed them and why?   There has to be a reason.


I feel that I have been a sucker pointing them out cos they have all now vanished from the streets as well. 
Have I inadvertently helped the paedo-masters hide their adverts/ directions to the action?   Keenly aided by YOU?



The directions there were * hidden in plain sight * using hearts as direction signs before.   I wonder where it goes on now?

[John]

Madeleine's parents are not the prime suspects in her disappearance.

That distinction is held by Christian Brueckner.

The BKA have already collected enough evidence to convince them that the offence being investigated is one of the murder of a child.  I reiterate their prime and only suspect for that is Brueckner.

I am astounded that there are still individuals continuing the fifteen years of slurs aimed at Madeleine's parents while defending to the hilt the presumption of innocence enjoyed by the suspected child murderer Brueckner.

Not according to SY and the McCanns he isn't because Wolters claims she's dead while SY and the McCanns disagree.

[sadie]

Exactly... which is why John's image is a fairly accurate representation.   I've really NO idea what the  unnecessary fuss kicked up by Sadie is all about.

Johns image has changed.   Gerry and Jez have been moved

I want to know why and who did it?


The whole situation changes re a watcher on the balcony if they chatted where Johns image shows now. 
The watcher would have been able to see them where Johns moved addition shows them, but just the few extra yards down the road and the corner of block 4 obscures the line of vision.


There is cheating going on.  It is obviously very important to the perps that we all believe that Jez and Gerry chatted in sight of the balcony, so there was 'no watcher' on the balcony and no abduction.


Who altered Amarals "Enigma" video earlier to blank out his exact description of where the men were standing?

[John]

How can anything be ruled out, when it's not clear if what has been said is correct? The 30 minute checks have been publicised, leaving ample time for an abduction, but when the evidence is examined there was allegedly a lot of activity near the apartment which reduced those 30 minute opportunities significantly.

That's very true, there were several witnesses in and around 3a during the evening. How long would it take to gain entry to the apartment, find and lift a child and then make an escape all without being seen. And remember, if there was an intruder he was not to know whether his victim would scream the place down.

[John]

No, I didn't get it either. How would someone watching, prove that Gerry hadn't seen Jane walking past? Surely the only way to do that is if this witness was absolutely confident that Jane didn't walk past at all. In which case, the whole "lie" comes tumbling down anyway. So why does that prevent Gerry saying that he saw her? And, if someone was watching Gerry and Jez talking, how does lying about being stood elsewhere help, if this person watching (and Jez) knows where you were really stood?

Not exactly sure what the "theory" is meant to be in all this. Presumably the claim is that Jane never really walked past Gerry and Jez? The question then is, what would be the point in saying she did? If the need was to create a "phantom", why did it need to be at the particular time that Gerry and Jez were talking in the street? Why couldn't Jane just have said she saw the abductor just after Gerry got back? Why make this apparently "invented sighting" less credible by saying it took place with two other people there, neither of whom saw you, or this abductor, walking past? Isn't it actually more likely that Jez and Gerry were just too engrossed in chatting to notice?

Lots of questions I expect no sensible answers to.

Amaral was of the opinion that Jane turned left into the walkway before she reached the two men standing chatting and that is why neither saw her pass. He also claimed that Jane didn't see the man carrying the child from the street but from her apartment on the first floor.

 All very odd imo.

[sadie]

Not according to SY and the McCanns he isn't because Wolters claims she's dead while SY and the McCanns disagree.

SY have seen the video I took in.  And possibly the Mccanns have too.   I hope it gave them comfort.

This video shows a little girl in fancy dress dancing with a group of other children at a gala or festival.   The little girl is Madeleine with almost 100% certainty.  This was in february 2012.

It would have been like looking for a needle in a haystack - anywhere in the world - but by intense research, deep thought and deduction I found a specific spot where she was likely to be.  I looked there and the video with 'Madeleine' was there, just as I hoped.


It was being rumoured on the internet that Madeleine had changed so much that no one would recognise her and she was *out*.  I guessed that she would probably be partly disguised, so googled the * deducted place name and the words Gala/festival * vidoes.  On about the third or fourth video, up she came.

I cannot describe the thrill and excitement when i saw her  I must have watched that video over a hundred times analysing all the small details.

I was an art teacher whose hobby was life figure drawing and portraiture, so I have a keen eye.

I suggested that OG go to one of the famous London Art Schools and check the little girls features with them.  Also that they checked the little girl out with relatives who would remember Kate and Gerry at the same sort of age.


In the * special edition Crime Watch program * a detective carried one of my folders, whilst my big folder was displayed in the middle of the top shelf of the case folders bookcase.  There were others, I'm not sure how many now because serious illnesses disrupted my research.   I am no good now.

Where this Festival dance took place is little visited by foreigners, especially in the winter months and remember it wasn't just any chance place .   It is about the size of a football pitch and I had deducted it by detailed and painstaking research.  Four years of my life gone, but it was very exciting as it unfolded.


It is with SY atm. so I cannot divulge.   There is another bit of evidence that also indicates that Madeleine is/was alive as a girl and being protected.  sorry I cannot divulge.

Also psychics all believe her alive


John, I don't think Madeleine is dead. 
I think she was very carefully selected and is required for some special purpose, probably because of her PURE BLOOD.


I think that the German investigators have made a mistake somewhere thinking Madeleine dead, but I don't know where or how.  I feel sure she was abducted, maybe or maybe not by Brueckner.

[John]

SY have seen the video I took in.  And possibly the Mccanns have too.   I hope it gave them comfort.

This video shows a little girl in fancy dress dancing with a group of other children at a gala or festival.   The little girl is Madeleine with almost 100% certainty.  This was in february 2012.

It would have been like looking for a needle in a haystack - anywhere in the world - but by intense research, deep thought and deduction I found a specific spot where she was likely to be.  I looked there and the video with 'Madeleine' was there, just as I hoped.


It was being rumoured on the internet that Madeleine had changed so much that no one would recognise her and she was *out*.  I guessed that she would probably be partly disguised, so googled the * deducted place name and the words Gala/festival * vidoes.  On about the third or fourth video, up she came.

I cannot describe the thrill and excitement when i saw her  I must have watched that video over a hundred times analysing all the small details.

I was an art teacher whose hobby was life figure drawing and portraiture, so I have a keen eye.

I suggested that OG go to one of the famous London Art Schools and check the little girls features with them.  Also that they checked the little girl out with relatives who would remember Kate and Gerry at the same sort of age.


In the * special edition Crime Watch program * a detective carried one of my folders, whilst my big folder was displayed in the middle of the top shelf of the case folders bookcase.  There were others, I'm not sure how many now because serious illnesses disrupted my research.   I am no good now.

Where this Festival dance took place is little visited by foreigners, especially in the winter months and remember it wasn't just any chance place .   It is about the size of a football pitch and I had deducted it by detailed and painstaking research.  Four years of my life gone, but it was very exciting as it unfolded.


It is with SY atm. so I cannot divulge.   There is another bit of evidence that also indicates that Madeleine is/was alive as a girl and being protected.  sorry I cannot divulge.

Also psychics all believe her alive


John, I don't think Madeleine is dead. 
I think she was very carefully selected and is required for some special purpose, probably because of her PURE BLOOD.


I think that the German investigators have made a mistake somewhere thinking Madeleine dead, but I don't know where or how.  I feel sure she was abducted, maybe or maybe not by Brueckner.

Just wondering Sadie, you identified two young Berber girls in photographs taken in the Rif Mountains as being Madeleine and Joana Cipriano so clearly misidentifications are common. I've given up on the number of occasions somebody claimed to have seen Madeleine but ultimately they were all found to be false. I think if Madeleine was a student in a London Art School that we would have heard about it by now. Hidden in plain sight eh?

[sadie]

Just wondering Sadie, you identified two young Berber girls in photographs taken in the Rif Mountains as being Madeleine and Joana Cipriano so clearly misidentifications are common. I've given up on the number of occasions somebody claimed to have seen Madeleine but ultimately they were all found to be false. I think if Madeleine was a student in a London Art School that we would have heard about it by now. Hidden in plain sight eh?

John you did NOT even spend the time reading my post.

Where did you get about Madeleine being a student at a London Art School from"?

I said

I suggested that OG go to one of the famous London Art Schools and check the little girls features with them.  Also that they checked the little girl out with relatives who would remember Kate and Gerry at the same sort of age.

I have to wonder, "Are you trying to bury my posts with nonsense?".  Get them hidden over page?   it has happened before altho i am not aware caused by you then.



Also the two little girls in the Rif Mountains of Morocco.

The original girl on the wo/mans back WAS DEFINITELY NOT Bushra.  Almost without doubt she was Madeleine.

Same with the little girl in orange.  She was very like Joana and the fact that someone went to the trouble of changing the shape of her legs will confirm it to others that some serious hanky panky is going on imo. 

If I were you, I would distance myself from such things.  We don't want you to get into trouble, and you certainly don't need it either.

[Vertigo Swirl]

That's very true, there were several witnesses in and around 3a during the evening. How long would it take to gain entry to the apartment, find and lift a child and then make an escape all without being seen. And remember, if there was an intruder he was not to know whether his victim would scream the place down.

How long do you think it would take to break into an unlocked apartment and remove a child?  How long did it take the creep who removed the girl from her bath who was awake with her mother in the house?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Also, if would be child abductors were worried about their quarry screaming when they took them there would never be any child abduction, so let’s stop using that as a rationale for why Madeleine could not have been abducted.  It’s absurd.

[The General]

That's very true, there were several witnesses in and around 3a during the evening. How long would it take to gain entry to the apartment, find and lift a child and then make an escape all without being seen. And remember, if there was an intruder he was not to know whether his victim would scream the place down.

Ironically, this is the only thing that rings true about an abduction. It would take mere seconds if that patio door was unlocked and someone knew it - less than a minute.
The 'abductor' could easily overpower and gag a small child to muffle screams.
But that's where credulity ends and fantasy takes over. Let's never forget that Gerry couldn't remember which way he entered the apartment at the moment when his life supposedly pivoted.

[Mr Gray]

Ironically, this is the only thing that rings true about an abduction. It would take mere seconds if that patio door was unlocked and someone knew it - less than a minute.
The 'abductor' could easily overpower and gag a small child to muffle screams.
But that's where credulity ends and fantasy takes over. Let's never forget that Gerry couldn't remember which way he entered the apartment at the moment when his life supposedly pivoted.

Both SY and the BKA think abduction took place.. The PJ thought it one of the possibilities.... Sceptic logic falls at the first fence