Author Topic: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect  (Read 106814 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1065 on: February 24, 2022, 11:42:56 AM »
Also Sadie, Jane said she watched Gerry and Julian Totman play tennis. I think she would have known what he looked like and would have pointed out that she saw him with the girl, instead of Tannerman (?)

Jane watched some of the men's social tennis, but I'm not sure she said who was there. Ian Horrocks, in The Sun, speculated that she would have seen him there and would have therefore recognised him at 9.15pm.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/2634164/gerry-mccann-played-tennis-with-tannerman-on-the-day-madeleine-went-missing/

There's no way of knowing if Totman was still present when Tanner arrived, but equally there's no reason to believe she didn't know him by sight.

The man she saw was unlikely to have been Brueckner, that's all we do know imo.
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Offline sadie

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1066 on: February 24, 2022, 11:43:10 AM »
I
- snip
The Totmans did not come into that category of those whose travel arrangements interfered with the PJ investigation and apparently they did make a report at the time.  Amaral's docu made use of the information given although still not explaining the direction of travel. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9601.msg465981#msg465981
The Totmans remained in Luz long enough for the PJ to do the job of checking out the eight families using the creche that night.

We've got a whole thread on this topic.  Here's one I posted earlier on it  "the explanation for an investigative journalist getting hold of an individual's details is easily understood.

Paulo Reis "found" Dr Totman and published his name on his blog in 2009 in relation to quite another conspiracy theory all together."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9601.msg465931#msg465931

- /snip



TAKE CARE ~ WARNING


Both adresses

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9601.msg465981#msg465981
 and
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9601.msg465931#msg465931

are unsafe addresses.   They should start with https[/b] not http (without the s) in order for them to be safe.






Sometimes when I come on forum I am presented with an unsafe address like the above.  I spend ages finding a way in without having to resort to using an unsafe way in.   Can this problem be addressed please John?

Offline misty

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1067 on: February 24, 2022, 12:20:08 PM »
Jane watched some of the men's social tennis, but I'm not sure she said who was there. Ian Horrocks, in The Sun, speculated that she would have seen him there and would have therefore recognised him at 9.15pm.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/2634164/gerry-mccann-played-tennis-with-tannerman-on-the-day-madeleine-went-missing/

There's no way of knowing if Totman was still present when Tanner arrived, but equally there's no reason to believe she didn't know him by sight.

The man she saw was unlikely to have been Brueckner, that's all we do know imo.

Why was the man Jane saw unlikely to have been Brueckner?

Offline G-Unit

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1068 on: February 24, 2022, 12:39:46 PM »
Why was the man Jane saw unlikely to have been Brueckner?

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Offline misty

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1069 on: February 24, 2022, 12:43:31 PM »


So how likely was the man Jane saw to be Dr Totman based on the evidence you are using?

Offline Brietta

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1070 on: February 24, 2022, 12:45:02 PM »
Why was the man Jane saw unlikely to have been Brueckner?

I don't think anyone can categorically identify the man seen by Jane.

It is known that Brueckner's MO sometimes consisted of dressing up and that wigs etc were found in his home.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1071 on: February 24, 2022, 12:51:17 PM »
I don't think anyone can categorically identify the man seen by Jane.

It is known that Brueckner's MO sometimes consisted of dressing up and that wigs etc were found in his home.

Both Brueckner & Totman can be ruled out based on hair alone, aside from height and build.

Offline G-Unit

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1072 on: February 24, 2022, 12:52:39 PM »
So how likely was the man Jane saw to be Dr Totman based on the evidence you are using?

The only evidence anyone has is Operation Grange's statement that they were 'almost certain' that it was a holidaymaker. Do you think the SY highly praised 'experts' got it wrong?
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Offline misty

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1073 on: February 24, 2022, 01:00:25 PM »
The only evidence anyone has is Operation Grange's statement that they were 'almost certain' that it was a holidaymaker. Do you think the SY highly praised 'experts' got it wrong?

I think it depends on how you interpret their exact words.
Certainly Sandra F promoted a 9.10pm abduction time in her 2020 Sexta9 series about Brueckner, which was compiled after much discussion with Wolters. IMO that specific time was not speculation.

Offline misty

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1074 on: February 24, 2022, 01:15:24 PM »
I don't think
  • that Misty is 'hinting' at any 'conspiracy' theory.
    She is quite openly QUESTIONING the conduct of the investigating team with regard to material witnesses. I take it that is allowed.
  • you are the one suggesting negligence on the part of Leicestershire police regarding questionnaires - I think it is for you to explain how it worked particularly for those holidaymakers not living in their catchment area.  Such as those returning from NI or like the Totmans, the South West

You constantly make reference to questionnaires.

My opinion is that anyone responding to local police requests for information would be holidaymakers returning from Luz around the time the McCann party would have been booked to come home and whom the Portuguese police did not have the time to question.

The Totmans did not come into that category of those whose travel arrangements interfered with the PJ investigation and apparently they did make a report at the time.  Amaral's docu made use of the information given although still not explaining the direction of travel. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9601.msg465981#msg465981
The Totmans remained in Luz long enough for the PJ to do the job of checking out the eight families using the creche that night.

We've got a whole thread on this topic.  Here's one I posted earlier on it  "the explanation for an investigative journalist getting hold of an individual's details is easily understood.

Paulo Reis "found" Dr Totman and published his name on his blog in 2009 in relation to quite another conspiracy theory all together."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9601.msg465931#msg465931


I don't really think it is appropriate to rely on documentaries to 'solve' cases although the Netflix one came at the right time to open eyes just a little in Portugal.

I think it might have been more pertinent for the PJ to have checked out the criminal elements resident in Luz at the time.
Reading between the lines I think there was a bit of a panic going on, certainly frantic enough to attract the attention of Scotland Yard in 2013 regarding the phone dump.  Who knows what questioning that in the immediate aftermath days later might have led to.

Brueckner - who as far as the police were concerned, but apparently not his alibis - had vanished.  But might have revealed exactly what was happening with the registration of his vehicle.

Misty is a poster consistently making salient points which really should open up a bit of intelligent discussion on the forum. What appears to me as consistent passive aggression in response doesn't really take us anywhere.  But heigh-ho

Once again - thank you, Brietta. I do try to post comments which may stimulate debate here between people who have differing opinions on the case. Certain folk should perhaps remember the quick demise of The Discussion Forum, where only a one-sided opinion was allowed to prevail.

Offline barrier

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1075 on: February 24, 2022, 01:20:50 PM »
I think it depends on how you interpret their exact words.
Certainly Sandra F promoted a 9.10pm abduction time in her 2020 Sexta9 series about Brueckner, which was compiled after much discussion with Wolters. IMO that specific time was not speculation.
[/b]


Which is at complete odds of SY who pushed the time onto 10pm after being almost certain Tanner man was not the abductor.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline sadie

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1076 on: February 24, 2022, 03:28:29 PM »
[/b]


Which is at complete odds of SY who pushed the time onto 10pm after being almost certain Tanner man was not the abductor.

That was under the leadership of one man  DCI Andy RedWOOD.   I wonder if he got it right with at least three things that point against the man being Dr Totman.   There was a lot of questioning on forums after I pointed out that Dr. Totman was going in the wrong direction from the Creche.  DCI Redwood retired pretty sharply after the PdL on site investigaton.

My sargeant at OG , DS Gary RedMOND took over at a hands on level.  He showed a good deal of interest in my theory.  We talked for about 40 mins IIRC.   There was another ?Sargeant sitting in the corner observing.  I was introduced and afterwards I wondered if she was assessing whether or not I was barmy, cos the theory was so different and unusual, yet based upon proven fact   I must have passed the observation test because they showed at least two of my folders on Crimewatch UK. 

They also made a comment about "one person had done an indepth analysis that had changed the direction of the investigation."  A policeman was carrying one of my folders as it was said


Additionally, I wonder if Dr Totman could have managed to carry his daughter all the way from the creche with her lying across his arms as illustrated.  The leverage on his arms would be immense.   It would have been much more natural and easier to carry her on his shoulder as Gerry did with Sean when he descended the aircrafts steps on arrival back in the UK.   He was an experienced father and knew the easiest way to carry his daughter, so why was he carrying her across his arms?   Was that detail one added by OG to make the possible sighting more 'real' to the world?  Dunno

With Tannerman carrying 'Madeleine' across his arms as he did, I am inclined to think that he was not a father.   This fits with Brueckner, BUT please,please , this observation does not mean Tannerman was Brueckner.   Let's not jump to conclusions.   
Carrying her across his arms in this way also indicates that he was expecting a quick pick up .


I understand the likely protests that "he wanted a little child to mess with for days", so he wouldn't be given the task by Mr Big.

We now know that he was part of a drug cartel, so he would know that if he did anything to Madeleine that displeased Mr Big, he was likely to have his fingers and "crown jewels" sliced off, his leg bones smashed and ear cut off. .....  And he was only supposed to hold her for the time, merely seconds, for the pick up vehicle to come from the little car park across the road from the Tapas reception..  But it didn't come because Gerry was in the way chatting with Jez.   The watcher/ getaway driver didn't know because the two men were hidden from his sight by the protuding wall of Unit 6 building.


Hope you have taken the time to examine the situation of the protuding wall and placements of G and J on GE.


And, of course, Breuckner could have been the "get in and lift Madeleine operator" within 5a.  He might have passed Madeleine to Tannerman, then fast footed it out of there.  Dunno .


This is all IMHO, but it fits.  Can you add to it Gunit, you helped me before. ?{)(**



Now, if you will excuse me, I am tired, but please do examine GE, both street scene and birds eye view.




 6&%5%   .... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....


Offline barrier

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1077 on: February 24, 2022, 03:35:10 PM »
That was under the leadership of one man  DCI Andy RedWOOD


Do you consider him in the same vain as Amaral ? surely one man doesn't lead an investigation.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline sadie

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1078 on: February 24, 2022, 03:45:00 PM »

Do you consider him in the same vain as Amaral ? surely one man doesn't lead an investigation.
No, I don't

Some people are just no good at direction.  My hubby is one and he is a 1st class Hons Engineer, so you wouldn't expect that.  Thank God for me and for Sat Navs.  Even with Sat Navs, whilst touring around Portugal, we ended up at the end of a lane in a milking parlour once.   (&^&



Soz, but  6&%5%  ..... zzzzzz....

Offline Myster

Re: The known facts and the speculations featuring Brueckner, the prime suspect
« Reply #1079 on: February 24, 2022, 04:56:28 PM »
That was under the leadership of one man  DCI Andy RedWOOD.   I wonder if he got it right with at least three things that point against the man being Dr Totman.   There was a lot of questioning on forums after I pointed out that Dr. Totman was going in the wrong direction from the Creche.  DCI Redwood retired pretty sharply after the PdL on site investigaton.

My sargeant at OG , DS Gary RedMOND took over at a hands on level.  He showed a good deal of interest in my theory.  We talked for about 40 mins IIRC.   There was another ?Sargeant sitting in the corner observing.  I was introduced and afterwards I wondered if she was assessing whether or not I was barmy, cos the theory was so different and unusual, yet based upon proven fact   I must have passed the observation test because they showed at least two of my folders on Crimewatch UK. 

They also made a comment about "one person had done an indepth analysis that had changed the direction of the investigation."  A policeman was carrying one of my folders as it was said


Additionally, I wonder if Dr Totman could have managed to carry his daughter all the way from the creche with her lying across his arms as illustrated.  The leverage on his arms would be immense.   It would have been much more natural and easier to carry her on his shoulder as Gerry did with Sean when he descended the aircrafts steps on arrival back in the UK.   He was an experienced father and knew the easiest way to carry his daughter, so why was he carrying her across his arms?   Was that detail one added by OG to make the possible sighting more 'real' to the world?  Dunno

With Tannerman carrying 'Madeleine' across his arms as he did, I am inclined to think that he was not a father.   This fits with Brueckner, BUT please,please , this observation does not mean Tannerman was Brueckner.   Let's not jump to conclusions.   
Carrying her across his arms in this way also indicates that he was expecting a quick pick up .


I understand the likely protests that "he wanted a little child to mess with for days", so he wouldn't be given the task by Mr Big.

We now know that he was part of a drug cartel, so he would know that if he did anything to Madeleine that displeased Mr Big, he was likely to have his fingers and "crown jewels" sliced off, his leg bones smashed and ear cut off. .....  And he was only supposed to hold her for the time, merely seconds, for the pick up vehicle to come from the little car park across the road from the Tapas reception..  But it didn't come because Gerry was in the way chatting with Jez.   The watcher/ getaway driver didn't know because the two men were hidden from his sight by the protuding wall of Unit 6 building.


Hope you have taken the time to examine the situation of the protuding wall and placements of G and J on GE.


And, of course, Breuckner could have been the "get in and lift Madeleine operator" within 5a.  He might have passed Madeleine to Tannerman, then fast footed it out of there.  Dunno .


This is all IMHO, but it fits.  Can you add to it Gunit, you helped me before. ?{)(**



Now, if you will excuse me, I am tired, but please do examine GE, both street scene and birds eye view.




 6&%5%   .... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
No they did not!  They said nothing of the sort... your delusions of grandeur strike again!...

https://youtu.be/3EyqHtsLeGQ?t=1159
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.