Author Topic: Pamela Fenn  (Read 30851 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2013, 10:11:26 PM »
I'm not sure I'm following.

Follow what?

If she knew a family was in there, it would defy logic or common sense for her to issue a denial about knowing the exact identity of the family she knew was in there.


ferryman

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Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2013, 10:14:40 PM »
I'm not sure I'm following.

Follow what?

If she knew a family was in there, it would defy logic or common sense for her to issue a denial about knowing the exact identity of the family she knew was in there.

I knew a famiily was in there, but I didn't know that family was in there

Explain the logic of that.

ETA: Mrs Fenn's statement makes much more sense interpreted as: I didn't know the (particularly holiday!) apartment was occupied.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 10:55:20 PM by ferryman »

icabodcrane

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Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2013, 12:34:24 AM »
Isn't the real point of debate   here  the fact that Mrs Fenn heard a child crying (  who became  increasingly distressed ) in the McCanns'  apartment  for an hour and a quarter ?

Isn't that what is significant,  given that it blows away the McCann's claim that they checked on their children every half hour ?

AnneGuedes

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Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2013, 12:47:53 AM »
Isn't the real point of debate   here  the fact that Mrs Fenn heard a child crying (  who became  increasingly distressed ) in the McCanns'  apartment  for an hour and a quarter ?

Isn't that what is significant,  given that it blows away the McCann's claim that they checked on their children every half hour ?
Note that the McCanns blow away Mrs Fenn's statement in denying any cry on the 1st of May but quoting Madeleine about crying on the 2nd. Though Rachael, on the other side of the wall, didn't hear any crying. Though Mrs Fenn was out on the 2nd at night.

ferryman

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Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2013, 12:52:03 AM »
Isn't the real point of debate   here  the fact that Mrs Fenn heard a child crying (  who became  increasingly distressed ) in the McCanns'  apartment  for an hour and a quarter ?

Isn't that what is significant,  given that it blows away the McCann's claim that they checked on their children every half hour ?

No.

The real point of debate is whether Mrs Fenn actually uttered the words attributed to her.

She denies that she did ...

icabodcrane

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Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2013, 01:00:36 AM »
Isn't the real point of debate   here  the fact that Mrs Fenn heard a child crying (  who became  increasingly distressed ) in the McCanns'  apartment  for an hour and a quarter ?

Isn't that what is significant,  given that it blows away the McCann's claim that they checked on their children every half hour ?

No.

The real point of debate is whether Mrs Fenn actually uttered the words attributed to her.

She denies that she did ...

What are you saying   ...  that Mrs Fenn's police statement was forged  ? 

AnneGuedes

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Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2013, 01:08:15 AM »
Isn't the real point of debate   here  the fact that Mrs Fenn heard a child crying (  who became  increasingly distressed ) in the McCanns'  apartment  for an hour and a quarter ?

Isn't that what is significant,  given that it blows away the McCann's claim that they checked on their children every half hour ?

No.

The real point of debate is whether Mrs Fenn actually uttered the words attributed to her.

She denies that she did ...

What are you saying   ...  that Mrs Fenn's police statement was forged  ?
Icabodcrane, I'm afraid there's no hope.

Offline John

Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2013, 03:40:34 AM »
Wasn't there another child belonging to parents within the tapas 9 group ill at that time?   Couldn't it have been it crying?  8-)(--)
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Redblossom

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Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2013, 02:14:33 PM »
Bump for those interested

Mrs Fenns statement clearly speaks on several occasions of the family living under her that week

It is untrue at best to say  that she told reporters she did not know the flat was occupied
 8((()*/

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

P.D.L RESIDENT
2412 to 2415 Witness Statement of Pamela Isobel Fenn 2007.08.20
09-Processo 9 Pages 2412 to 2415
 TRANSLATION BY INES
09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2412
 
09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2413
 
09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2414
 
09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2415
 
Mrs Pamela Fenn 20 August 2007
Mrs Fenns statement, taken in Praia da Luz on the 20th of August 2007:

Included in the files as a witness statement.

Being of British nationality and in spite of living in Portugal, does not have knowledge of the Portuguese language in its oral and written form, therefore a police interpreter is present, UEVE VAN LOOCK. Thus, according to the facts noted in the files, she says that she has lived in the apartment since 2003, which is located on the upper floor, immediately above the room from which the child disappeared.

She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.

When questioned, she said that she did not know the cause of the crying, perhaps a nightmare or another destabilising factor.
As soon as the parents entered the child stopped crying.  That night she contacted a friend called EDNA GLYN, who also lives in Praia da Luz, after 23.00, telling her about the situation, who was not surprised at the childs crying.  She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night.

On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit.  During the day nothing unusual happened, until almost 22.30 when, being alone again, she heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out "we have let her down" which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. Upon leaning over the terrace, after having seen the mother, Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30.

She said that after the mothers shouts, she had seen many people in the streets looking for the girl. She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.   When asked, she replied that on 3rd May she did not hear any noise from the McCann apartment, not even the opening of doors. She also said that before hearing the shouts she was watching television, as she often stays up late.

When questioned, she said that she never heard any arguments between the couple or with their children. She said that the family would spend much time outside of the apartment and therefore she did not notice their presence.  She said that until that night she had never spoken to the McCann's, because up until the 3rd May, she only sometimes saw them walking in the street. She never saw them with any vehicle.  She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering.

When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence.

Having read and approved the statement, she signs, together with the interpreter.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm


« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 02:48:50 PM by Admin »

Offline DCI

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Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2013, 02:33:50 PM »
Ferryman, surely you can see the difference in meaning between these two sentences?

"I didn't even know that family was in there."

"I didn't even know a family was in there".

Mrs Fenn said the former statement according to the Mail, but you have attributed the latter statement to her.

If she knew a family was in there, it would defy logic or common sense for her to issue a denial about knowing the exact identity of the family she knew was in there.

She was (expecting to be) interviewed about the crime of which she was victim and which she reported.

In the rendering we read on line, that crime gets a mention (just) right at the end of an interview that purports to be about Madeleine ...

If the quote attributed to her by the Daily Mail supposedly  came from that short video clip that was broadcast on PT TV then they appear to have completely misquoted her anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFHbkbBh5BM

Yeah, I wonder who did her statement? And why would she say, it sounded like Madeleine, in her statement?

I also wonder where her first one went, as she was said to have made. Odd that disappeared. 
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Offline Carana

Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2013, 02:50:59 PM »
Ferryman, surely you can see the difference in meaning between these two sentences?

"I didn't even know that family was in there."

"I didn't even know a family was in there".

Mrs Fenn said the former statement according to the Mail, but you have attributed the latter statement to her.

If she knew a family was in there, it would defy logic or common sense for her to issue a denial about knowing the exact identity of the family she knew was in there.

She was (expecting to be) interviewed about the crime of which she was victim and which she reported.

In the rendering we read on line, that crime gets a mention (just) right at the end of an interview that purports to be about Madeleine ...

If the quote attributed to her by the Daily Mail supposedly  came from that short video clip that was broadcast on PT TV then they appear to have completely misquoted her anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFHbkbBh5BM

Yeah, I wonder who did her statement? And why would she say, it sounded like Madeleine, in her statement?

I also wonder where her first one went, as she was said to have made. Odd that disappeared.

I can't find where she is supposed to have said that. She happened to live in the flat above the one from which the child disappeared.

She said that she'd heard a child crying from the floor below hers and she didn't think that the voice was that of a baby under two years old. Strange turn of phrase, was she presented with the term "infant"?

The floor below could be any one of the flats below hers. If ever her hearing was accurate.

Offline John

Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2013, 02:55:33 PM »
If she was able to hear the patio doors open when the parents arrived back it was obviously the apartment directly beneath hers ie the McCanns at 5a.

Those patio door can squeak quite a lot so that in itself is interesting.  Another reason why the abductor didn't enter the apartment by that means on the 3rd May.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 02:58:20 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2013, 03:02:44 PM »
If she was able to hear the patio doors open when the parents arrived back it was obviously the apartment directly beneath hers ie the McCanns at 5a.

Those patio door can squeak quite a lot so that in itself is interesting.  Another reason why the abductor didn't enter the apartment by that means on the 3rd May.

I've never worked out why she didn't notice - or wasn't asked about - the gate. Wouldn't that have squeaked?

She could just as easily have heard someone opening or shutting the patio doors for whatever reason and assumed that they'd just come in.

No one seems to have asked her where she was standing / sitting during this time... so many questions.

Redblossom

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Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2013, 03:04:19 PM »
The floor below could be any one of the flats below hers. If ever her hearing was accurate.

*****

Well the floor below her was either the Mccanns or the Oldfields, the next one along was empty, the next one along was the OBriens, however hard of hearing she was, she heard a child crying, how much FURTHER along the block do you think she MIGHT have heard this but attributed it to the flat DIRECTLY below her? 5 doors, 6 doors? More?

Do look at the picture here posted 24 sept 6.49 pm showing Mrs Fenns flat marked G, and the Mccanns at A, Oldfields at B and Obriens at D, so whose child was crying?

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic179-10.htm
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 03:20:11 PM by Redblossom »

Offline DCI

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Re: Pamela Fenn
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2013, 03:08:17 PM »

Witness statement of Pamela Fenn PJ Files

Processo IX, pages 2412 to 2414

Date: 2007/08/20
Time: 15H30

Comes before the Court as a witness.

She also said that she never told the McCANN's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 04:08:24 PM by John »
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