Lucy Letby

[Joe Blogs]

Definitely a case of dodgy statistics on the Panorama programme
https://www.reddit.com/r/LucyLetbyTrials/comments/1hr7mkm/the_40_dislodgment_rate_from_lucy_letbys_time_at/

Thanks Vertigo, have been asking a lot of questions over on X recently. but still haven't taken a side.
I dont really understand the statistical evidence very well, I know Panorama have admitted making mistakes but not sure what the final percentage was agreed on or whether it was still high compared to other nurses?
Then there is the fact that most of the time there was more than one nurse usually on duty in the ward, but Letby always waited until she was on her own before getting up to no good undetected, any truth in this?
Now I see one baby had a foreign object stuck in its throat?
What about the smoking gun as it were, the insulin results? The Dr at the end of Panorama said it had to have been administered by someone because of the low C-peptides, but the likes of Dr Shoo Lee and his associates said the low peptides can occurr naturally in some cases, but if so, presumably they have produced such documents to back this up, did they?
Oh yes, and someone claimed that notes in Letbys house mentioned foreign objects before she was charged, meaning she had guilty knowledge.
BUT!!!! In the meantime I dont know which allegations are fact and can be backed up, and which are fiction, Vertigo!
So as I say, I remain on the fence for the time being

[Vertigo Swirl]

Thanks Vertigo, have been asking a lot of questions over on X recently. but still haven't taken a side.
I dont really understand the statistical evidence very well, I know Panorama have admitted making mistakes but not sure what the final percentage was agreed on or whether it was still high compared to other nurses?
Then there is the fact that most of the time there was more than one nurse usually on duty in the ward, but Letby always waited until she was on her own before getting up to no good undetected, any truth in this?
Now I see one baby had a foreign object stuck in its throat?
What about the smoking gun as it were, the insulin results? The Dr at the end of Panorama said it had to have been administered by someone because of the low C-peptides, but the likes of Dr Shoo Lee and his associates said the low peptides can occurr naturally in some cases, but if so, presumably they have produced such documents to back this up, did they?
Oh yes, and someone claimed that notes in Letbys house mentioned foreign objects before she was charged, meaning she had guilty knowledge.
BUT!!!! In the meantime I dont know which allegations are fact and can be backed up, and which are fiction, Vertigo!
So as I say, I remain on the fence for the time being

I think the insulin tests can be highly unreliable from what I have read.  Both babies alleged to have been poisoned with insulin survived and recovered despite off the chart insulin levels in one case which could suggest that the test results were overstated .   There is no tangible proof that LL administered insulin to them, no one saw her take insulin from the medical store, there is nothing, only a belief that because she supposedly murdered other babies (but not by insulin ods) that she must be behind these incidents as well.   She seemed to have quite an array of murder methods did she not?  Quite unusual imo.  Insulin, air tube disruption, injecting air, physically attacking resulting in ruptured organs and so on.  I don?t know what you mean about foreign objects, I haven?t heard about those.  And you know the old saying about statistics?

[Joe Blogs]

I think the insulin tests can be highly unreliable from what I have read.  Both babies alleged to have been poisoned with insulin survived and recovered despite off the chart insulin levels in one case which could suggest that the test results were overstated .   There is no tangible proof that LL administered insulin to them, no one saw her take insulin from the medical store, there is nothing, only a belief that because she supposedly murdered other babies (but not by insulin ods) that she must be behind these incidents as well.   She seemed to have quite an array of murder methods did she not?  Quite unusual imo.  Insulin, air tube disruption, injecting air, physically attacking resulting in ruptured organs and so on.  I don?t know what you mean about foreign objects, I haven?t heard about those.  And you know the old saying about statistics?

Thanks, Vertigo, its just that I cant take sides without looking at all the different claims out there and having them verified. I will check what exactly was claimed about the foreign object/body in the throat, if I can find it again!

[Joe Blogs]

Thanks, Vertigo, its just that I cant take sides without looking at all the different claims out there and having them verified. I will check what exactly was claimed about the foreign object/body in the throat, if I can find it again!

Yes the foreign body was allegedly the object used to attack the baby with hemophilia to cause bleeding, Vertigo!
I am currently listening to the trial transcript of Letbys cross examination by the prosecution, all eight hours of it from youtube.

[mrswah]

I have followed this case from the beginning. After the trial, I assumed she was guilty (and she may well be), but I do now have doubts, and believe she needs a retrial.

There appear to be two strong sides, going by what I read on various sites. One side is so sure she is guilty, that members are verbally abusive and aggressive about it. I don't understand why they need to be, since LL has 15 whole life sentences !!!  The opposing side is so sure she is innocent, that they are holding demos and birthday parties for her.  I don't understand how anyone can be entirely sure.

I can understand why people think she is guilty: there are a lot of strange co incidences, for example, babies deteriorating shortly after she appears on the scene. 

I also have a lot of doubts.  I don't believe all the medical experts who are expressing doubts/alternative explanations  are merely conspiracy theorists . Nor do I believe that public figures such as Lord Sumption and David Davis are stupid:  they must have good reasons for what they say. I am also uncomfortable about locking somebody up for life when she wasn't actually seen causing harm to any baby, and when her line manager had nothing bad to say about her. In fact, if you read the nurse witness statements on the Thirlwall Inquiry site, none of her fellow nurses seem to have had any suspicions about her.

As for her text messages, they seem normal to me. I believe she wrote that notorious note because she knew people were suspecting her. I dont know why she kept so many handover sheets-----any ideas?  Possibly, she wanted to "cover herself" in case she was ever questioned.  I certainly dont believe they were trophies.

So, I'm very interested in following future developments on this case.

It also occurs to me that, in all likelihood, a person accused of killing babies in a hospital is always  going to be found guilty!

[Joe Blogs]

I have followed this case from the beginning. After the trial, I assumed she was guilty (and she may well be), but I do now have doubts, and believe she needs a retrial.

There appear to be two strong sides, going by what I read on various sites. One side is so sure she is guilty, that members are verbally abusive and aggressive about it. I don't understand why they need to be, since LL has 15 whole life sentences !!!  The opposing side is so sure she is innocent, that they are holding demos and birthday parties for her.  I don't understand how anyone can be entirely sure.

I can understand why people think she is guilty: there are a lot of strange co incidences, for example, babies deteriorating shortly after she appears on the scene. 

I also have a lot of doubts.  I don't believe all the medical experts who are expressing doubts/alternative explanations  are merely conspiracy theorists . Nor do I believe that public figures such as Lord Sumption and David Davis are stupid:  they must have good reasons for what they say. I am also uncomfortable about locking somebody up for life when she wasn't actually seen causing harm to any baby, and when her line manager had nothing bad to say about her. In fact, if you read the nurse witness statements on the Thirlwall Inquiry site, none of her fellow nurses seem to have had any suspicions about her.

As for her text messages, they seem normal to me. I believe she wrote that notorious note because she knew people were suspecting her. I dont know why she kept so many handover sheets-----any ideas?  Possibly, she wanted to "cover herself" in case she was ever questioned.  I certainly dont believe they were trophies.

So, I'm very interested in following future developments on this case.

It also occurs to me that, in all likelihood, a person accused of killing babies in a hospital is always  going to be found guilty!

I'm in the middle of listening to her trial testimony at the moment, mrswah, all fifteen hours of it.
The prosecution cross examination, that is!

[The General]

I'm in the middle of listening to her trial testimony at the moment, mrswah, all fifteen hours of it.
The prosecution cross examination, that is!

What's your thoughts? Guilty or not guilty?