Deleted calls/texts and use of mobiles

[C.Edwards]

I wonder in what circumstances (if any) the OP would consider it not suspicious to delete text messages from one's phone?

a) you keep ignoring the call log records
b) hmm, maybe not in the first few hours of your daughter going missing, perhaps?

[Eleanor]

I expect he thinks Kate and Gerry were discussing what to do with Madeleine's body, like people do in the middle of a Police Investigation.

[C.Edwards]

I wonder in what circumstances (if any) the OP would consider it not suspicious to delete text messages from one's phone?

a) you keep ignoring the call log records

What do you mean by this?  Incidentally, can you point me in the direction of the raw data showing the deleted call history?  I have seen something which lists 4 calls to Kate, and their duration (very short, I think the longest is 20 seconds) but it is not clear from the list that these are deleted calls.  This is not a trick question, I just would like to look at the "damning" evidence for myself.

b) hmm, maybe not in the first few hours of your daughter going missing, perhaps?

Why not?  What would act as a trigger for you to decidde to delete your phone messages?  You've made it clear that it certainly wouldn't be the expectation of receiving a large quantity of new messages, so what then?

You clearly think it is highly suspicious that Gerry deleted his call history of calls made to his wife on the night of the 3rd May.  Can you suggest any reason why he would want to try and hide the fact that he called his wife from the authorities?  I can't think of one (as far as I'm concerned he was probably out and about searching, calling back to Kate to see if Madeleine had been found) but then you're so much cleverer than I am so are bound to have a perfectly plausible theory for this nefarious act.

I can only believe you're being deliberately obtuse.  I mention the call records as you were flippantly commenting about it not being suspicious to delete text messages - hence "you keep ignoring the call log records".  You do understand the difference, right?

All the data relating to the calls is in my initial post. Is that the 4th or 3rd time I've mentioned that in this thread now? It shows the difference between Kate's retrieved calls from her phone memory and the ones actually made/received using the network provider's data.

You still can't see that anyone supposedly in grief and panic in the first few hours after the disappearance of their daughter wouldn't normally be worrying about deleting call records and/or text messages?  Amazing.

I have NO idea why Gerry was hiding details of calls to his wife and calls to what I think turned out to be the hospital.  I only know it appears he did it.  I also have no idea why Kate deleted many more calls/text and yest left a couple. Maybe to try and make it look less suspicious? Who knows.  There's also the issue of the "missing call record" when Gerry was seen/heard on a phone and there's no record of the call on the network logs.  He was using someone else's phone and as he subsequently made a call to his wife, I find that odd as his was working perfectly normally.  Taking all these things together I agree with the PJ finding it significant and I'm sure they intended doing a lot more digging.

I find you and your associates' dismissal of this as utterly incredible.  If any of this kind of evidence existed against Amaral for one of your witch hunts you'd be burning effigies of him by now.

[DCI]

Some phones do automatically delete the oldest messages if the inbox or sent box gets full 

[C.Edwards]

Some phones do automatically delete the oldest messages if the inbox or sent box gets full 

Thanks for the information.  Trouble is it's got nothing whatsoever to do with what happened here.

[C.Edwards]

I'm genuinely worn out here. It's like debating with a 6 year old who's being stubborn for the sake of it.

There is no magical document. You have to use your powers of reasoning and deduction. I appreciate this could be hard for you.  In the initial post you will see that I've already dissed (some of) that blog post so you don't need to do the same again in the hope that it scores you a point.  You'll also see a list of retrieved calls from Kate's phone, which I've handily labelled "Kate's calls" to try and avoid confusion, but it appears I overestimated some of my audience.

A little further down you'll find "Kate antenna activations" and this is what the network shows was happening with Kate's phone.  Now here's the tricky part... compare and contrast the two records and then if you are unable to understand where the deleted call log point comes from, feel free to print out the sheet and make a paper hat out of it or something.  Then you can maybe ask a responsible adult to explain it to you with diagrams or finger puppets?

Yes, I'm being patronising and sarcastic right back at you, Manuel (as I've now come to think of you) as you are unable to post a single response without lacing it with the same sort of crap. What goes round comes round and all that.

You just keep right on believing it's "not significant to the investigation". I imagine that you'd dismiss pretty much anything as not significant unless it fitted into your own theory of abduction so, to me, your dismissal is irrelevant.

[C.Edwards]

No, just to clarify (for those of you with the required IQ), the evidence of deleted call records is all in the first post. All you have to do is look at the records retrieved from the phone and compare them with the records provided by the network.

See?  I did that without smilies. It's not so hard.

[C.Edwards]

OK - question for anyone other than CEdwards because he'll just use this as an excuse to abuse me - what's this?

http://themccanngallery.blogspot.com/2009/10/lies-of-kate-and-gerry-mccann-deleted.html

Are those 4 calls to Kate Healey on the night of the 3rd the alleged deleted ones, or are they other ones?

Ah. If only the OP had thought to put in a section called "Where's the mistake?" about a third of the way down the original post that refers to this exact thing.

[C.Edwards]

Right - on that list I posted he made 4 calls to Kate, so which ones were the deleted ones?  This is not a trick question, just clarify it for me someone, without getting all nasty if possible.

How many times did I say it was all in the initial post?  Are you telling me you've been arguing all this time without actually reading it? (any of it?  Some of it?)

I think it's a myth that he called her 4 times, as I point out.  I have yet to see anyone (anti or otherwise) show me I'm wrong with that supposition.  There are two calls from Gerry's mobile - it's clear on the vodafone records.  He has deleted both from his call log, she has only deleted one from hers.  She also deleted loads of other calls/texts (it's hard to know which are which because of the gaps in the files not showing her detailed record) from the previous day.

[C.Edwards]

Right - I have to bow out of this discussion as I am clearly too stupid or hallucinating or something.  I posted this http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_w-8JKaTohe4/SeocDnAHUFI/AAAAAAAARBE/CRq7GsB2E-0/s1600/mccann_phone_records.jpg which *seems* to show 4 calls to Kate from Gerry, but now CEdwards is telling me this is a myth.  From confused.com this is goodbye.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA_VOD/OA_11_VOD_Page_037.jpg

Vodafone records. No idea what that is you've linked to and the timings on the two "other" calls seem very weird.

[C.Edwards]

I really am struggling to understand the confusion.

In my first post is a link - "Gerry's calls" which leads here: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_85.jpg and shows the call log retrieved from his phone.  All good so far?

In my first post is a link - "Gerry Voice out" which leads here: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA_VOD/OA_11_VOD_Page_037.jpg

Look at the 3rd and 4th lines of the official vodafone page (2nd link, for the avoidance of doubt).  See that number ending 188? That's Kate, that is.

Look at the first link now. When do Gerry's call logs start? Three minutes past midnight of the 4th.  Where are the calls to Kate in the hour before that? Gone, disappeared, abducted, whoosh-clunked, call it what you will. They ain't there.  Don't be daft enough to claim his phone obviously only stores the last 17 calls made/received or the last 9 calls made or the last 8 calls received please.

[Eleanor]

Some people, like me, delete automatically.  It saves so much time later.

[C.Edwards]

Some people, like me, delete automatically.  It saves so much time later.

Really?  You delete your call log after every call?  Amazing.

Even if you do, I don't. How do you know your habits are any more usual than mine? How do you know what the McCanns do/don't do?  You don't, do you?

[Angelo222]

I delete all my e-mails and texts from my phone as soon as I read them so does that make me suspicious??  Course not silly. 

[C.Edwards]

I delete all my e-mails and texts from my phone as soon as I read them so does that make me suspicious??  Course not silly.

It makes your post irrelevant.  Why are you lot unable to differentiate between call logs and texts? It's like trying to discuss technology with my mother in law!