Author Topic: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.  (Read 18365 times)

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AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2013, 05:34:08 PM »
O comunicado da PGR esclarece que “poderão ter lugar a reclamação hierárquica, o pedido de abertura de instrução ou a reabertura do inquérito, requeridos por quem tiver legitimidade para tal”.
From another source, this time the syndicate of Public Ministry Magistrates.
http://www.smmp.pt/?p=1169
Robert M had exactly the same right. In due time.
Assuming the request would have been rejected is pure speculation. It's no fact ! Even in the UK all requests aren't systematically granted. Or are they ?
You'll admit that victims who didn't manage to convince their friends to reconstruct, when the PRG let very clear it was the last hope to discover new leads, would have better supported their claim for a reopening of the investigation with some compromise concerning the request of the PRG.
So why didn't they at least try ?

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2013, 05:36:33 PM »
O comunicado da PGR esclarece que “poderão ter lugar a reclamação hierárquica, o pedido de abertura de instrução ou a reabertura do inquérito, requeridos por quem tiver legitimidade para tal”.
From another source, this time the syndicate of Public Ministry Magistrates.
http://www.smmp.pt/?p=1169
Robert M had exactly the same right. In due time.
Assuming the request would have been rejected is pure speculation. It's no fact ! Even in the UK all requests aren't systematically granted. Or are they ?
You'll admit that victims who didn't manage to convince their friends to reconstruct, when the PRG let very clear it was the last hope to discover new leads, would have better supported their claim for a reopening of the investigation with some compromise concerning the request of the PRG.
So why didn't they at least try ?

It is not a right to stop the shelving, just a right to appeal to a court to allow people to show cause ( with supporting evidence) why the case should not be shelved.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2013, 05:49:40 PM »
Once thing is the persons of interest, the MC and RM, asking for the investigation to go on and doing so suspending the shelving of the case, another is the request to the MP by any citizen having knowledge of a new fact to reopen of the case. The first had a deadline, the second has not.

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2013, 05:53:12 PM »
Once thing is the persons of interest, the MC and RM, asking for the investigation to go on and doing so suspending the shelving of the case, another is the request to the MP by any citizen having knowledge of a new fact to reopen of the case. The first had a deadline, the second has not.

Both require proof before a court. Neither is a simple demand that must be granted- which is what [ censored word ]s claim.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2013, 06:17:25 PM »
Once thing is the persons of interest, the MC and RM, asking for the investigation to go on and doing so suspending the shelving of the case, another is the request to the MP by any citizen having knowledge of a new fact to reopen of the case. The first had a deadline, the second has not.

Both require proof before a court. Neither is a simple demand that must be granted- which is what p......s claim.
Proof of what exactly ?

Offline John

Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2013, 07:06:31 PM »
New topic on shelving the case and having it reinstated.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2013, 07:52:22 PM »
Once thing is the persons of interest, the MC and RM, asking for the investigation to go on and doing so suspending the shelving of the case, another is the request to the MP by any citizen having knowledge of a new fact to reopen of the case. The first had a deadline, the second has not.

What is understood by "fact"? Perhaps I'm wrong, but I understand the situation to be new evidence that could lead the investigation forwards towards a conclusion.

Re a re-opening:

The attorney-general's office said this would only happen if there were "new, credible and relevant facts and not mere hypotheses or speculations".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17852433



Offline Carana

Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2013, 08:00:52 PM »
I wish I knew what the McCanns should do in order to have the case reopened. They had a dead line to oppose the shelving, lost the opportunity and now what ? Should they have a new fact to submit to the Public Ministry ? I'm afraid only a jurist would know that.

Cite please for their ability tokeep the case open without further evidence. Withina certain deadline. Myth I believe.
It's no myth, Portuguese Justice system rules the victims have a certain number of days to oppose a decision of archiving. This deadline was around the 20th of September 2008 (since the holidays were off).


There are certain legal provisions that apply, unless I'm mistaken?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2013, 08:12:42 PM »
It's no myth, Portuguese Justice system rules the victims have a certain number of days to oppose a decision of archiving. This deadline was around the 20th of September 2008 (since the holidays were off).

That 20 day deadline would have been a stretch, even for Murat, who wouldn't have needed to get the report translated.

But the McCanns?

Offline Luz

Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2013, 08:20:30 PM »
Thank you for confirming that there is no right of the accused to stop the archiving.

I suspect you posted it in Portuguese in the hope that you could hide this truth from people who cannot read Portuguese.


And what good is that, pray tell? Not only does the accused NOT have the right to demand reopening, there IS no accused in this case. Robert Murat and the McCanns were cleared of any wrongdoing.

Indeed, a couple of days later, Amaral would not have been allowed to make the McCanns arguidos in the first place, due to the law changing so the police needed actual evidence.

The AG of Portugal has made it crystal clear that the case cannot be reopened without NEW EVIDENCE, so isn't it about time the forkers stopped this garbage about stamps?

http://.....2.forumotion.co.uk/t3193-so-all-the-mccanns-need-to-get-the-case-reopened-is-a-stamp-is-it

Wrong, Murat was fully investigated and nothing was found against him, but the McCann were not and they are and will remain persons of interest in case there is a reopening. Since there was no Trial none of them can be declared cleared in the true sense of the word.

About the "reopening":

If the Inquiry is archived the person(s) that made the denounce or the arguido(s) may become assistant(s) to the process and require that the instruction (2nd phase of the process) is opened within a period of 5 days after the announcement of the archiving (artº287 CPP). This is from the 1992 Law, that I believe was enlargement for a period 20 days in 2001 – not certain of the date of the revision since I do not have the books with me, just citing from memory.

Of course they have to justify their appeal and there will be an analysis of such requirement in order for the Instruction Judge to decide if it is precedent or not. The justification may be an opposition or refutal about the facts in the archiving report, the introduction of new evidence, etc.

amaraltheofficeboy

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2013, 08:25:00 PM »
Quote
Wrong, Murat was fully investigated and nothing was found against him, but the McCann were not and they are and will remain persons of interest in case there is a reopening

explain

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2013, 08:37:40 PM »
Luz is spreading untruths again.

ThePortuguese law is described above and bears no relation to the silly fairy tale Luz is promoting.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2013, 09:59:10 PM »
Thank you for confirming that there is no right of the accused to stop the archiving.


Now how many times must we repeat there was no charge against Mr and Mrs McCann ? Being an arguido isn't being accused and an arguido has the same rights as a victim, which the McCanns were considered to be.

Why post in Portuguese on an English speaking board. Well, do so if your supposed supportive cite shows NO ABSOLUTE RIGHT to halt the shelving of the process, just lays out a route of appeal. It would take slightly more than a stamp.
Whether reading Portuguese or English, nurse Debunker, your practice consists in accusing others of posting opinions instead of facts after attributing them concepts and words that are yours and only yours.
You were the one here who started speaking of "right to halt the shelving". I never did, as you can see above :
Portuguese Justice system rules the victims have a certain number of days to oppose a decision of archiving. This deadline was around the 20th of September 2008
I'm sorry your behaviour is contrary to the principles of fruitful debate.

amaraltheofficeboy

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2013, 10:04:08 PM »
did Amaral look into your eyes, or look away from your eyes?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 10:06:23 PM by amaraltheofficeboy »

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Process for shelving the investigation or having it reinstated.
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2013, 05:25:51 AM »
Thank you for confirming that there is no right of the accused to stop the archiving.


Now how many times must we repeat there was no charge against Mr and Mrs McCann ? Being an arguido isn't being accused and an arguido has the same rights as a victim, which the McCanns were considered to be.

Why post in Portuguese on an English speaking board. Well, do so if your supposed supportive cite shows NO ABSOLUTE RIGHT to halt the shelving of the process, just lays out a route of appeal. It would take slightly more than a stamp.
Whether reading Portuguese or English, nurse Debunker, your practice consists in accusing others of posting opinions instead of facts after attributing them concepts and words that are yours and only yours.
You were the one here who started speaking of "right to halt the shelving". I never did, as you can see above :
Portuguese Justice system rules the victims have a certain number of days to oppose a decision of archiving. This deadline was around the 20th of September 2008
I'm sorry your behaviour is contrary to the principles of fruitful debate.

Please cite the actual law in Portuguese or English.