At what time were the police called after Madeleine's disappearance?

[muratfan]

It's easy to cherry pick from statements to build a theory of what happened

You have been doing it for 6 years now, yet moan when someone else does it.

[John]

The truth lies somewhere within the above posts by Angelo and Redblossom.  We know for sure that the check by Kate was done at10pm give or take a few minutes, add a few minutes to this for Madeleine's disappearance to be discovered and to run back to the tapas bar.  A further few minutes for a cursory search to have been carried out and to get to reception and that leaves the time around 10.15pm.

This I would suggest was when the first request to the receptionist was made to telephone the police.  Question is, why didn't he do it?

[Joanne]

They have always said they asked reception to do it because none of them could speak Portuguese.

[icabodcrane]

Many thanks for posting those extracts DCI.   

The two members who asserted the following >

I. It didn't take the GNR nearly an hour to respond to the first alert.

II. The GNR weren't dealing with another call when alerted.


I will accept that apology now Anne and Ica??

Angelo

It does not matter how many people say they assumed the police had been called, or even how many people say they directly asked  reception to call the police  ...  the fact remains that the police were NOT called from the Ocean Club reception until 10.41pm

It's there in the phone records

It is a myth that the police took an hour to respond to the  first call

[John]

We now know that the GNR patrol was dealing with another call at Odiaxere when they were first alerted to the missing child.  A call they, by their own admission, didn't immediately take too seriously.

Odiaxere is between 13 and 14 km away from the Ocean Club resort at Praia da Luz and the time for them to travel there would be about 20 minutes always assuming they left the first call immediately.  Since we know their time of arrival at Ocean club to be confirmed as 11pm we can then deduce therefore that the very earliest they could have started out from Odiaxere was not before 11.40pm.

Given the delay between the telephone call and the radio message being sent it also doesn't take too much to work out that the police were not responding to the 11.41 call as Icabodcrane and Anne claim but were responding to an earlier one.

Icabodcrane.  Have you seen the mobile telephone records for everyone who telephone the police?

[icabodcrane]

We now know that the GNR patrol was dealing with another call at Odiaxere when they were first alerted to the missing child.  A call they, by their own admission, didn't immediately take too seriously.

Odiaxere is between 13 and 14 km away from the Ocean Club resort at Praia da Luz and the time for them to travel there would be about 20 minutes always assuming they left the first call immediately.  Since we know their time of arrival at Ocean club to be confirmed as 11pm we can then deduce therefore that the very earliest they could have started out from Odiaxere was not before 11.40pm.

Which exactly corresponds to the phone records at the Ocean Club

First phone call to the police from reception at 22.41pm 

Police, who are twenty minutes away, respond immediately, and arrive at approx 11pm

Can we add the claim that the police took an hour to respond to the myth section now  ?

[Angelo222]

We now know that the GNR patrol was dealing with another call at Odiaxere when they were first alerted to the missing child.  A call they, by their own admission, didn't immediately take too seriously.

Odiaxere is between 13 and 14 km away from the Ocean Club resort at Praia da Luz and the time for them to travel there would be about 20 minutes always assuming they left the first call immediately.  Since we know their time of arrival at Ocean club to be confirmed as 11pm we can then deduce therefore that the very earliest they could have started out from Odiaxere was not before 11.40pm.

Which exactly corresponds to the phone records at the Ocean Club

First phone call to the police from reception at 22.41pm 

Police, who are twenty minutes away, respond immediately, and arrive at approx 11pm

Can we add the claim that the police took an hour to respond to the myth section now  ?

They didn't respond immediately.  Which part of they were attending another call don't you understand Ica??

[John]

Can I remind you of the Accommodation Manager's statement...

He had no reason to lie, had he?



Vitor Manuel dos Santos

With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

[John]

So by my reckoning the police had at least 50 minutes to respond.

I thus agree, it is a myth that the police took an hour to arrive at the Ocean Club as they took 50 minutes.

[icabodcrane]

Could I have a reply please Icabodcrane?

Can I remind you of the Accommodation Manager's statement...

Vitor Manuel dos Santos

With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet.

A reply to what John  ...  whether or not I have seen the mobile phone records of people who were there that night  ?

Well of course I havn't ...  and neither have you

Nor can you produce a witness statement from anyone  even  claiming to have contacted the police using a mobile phone

I am going by evidence alone

The evidence  ( indisputable and hard evidence )  'proves'  that no call was made from the Ocean Club reception to police  until 22.41pm

As you, yourself pointed out,  when that call was made the police were 20 minutes away ...  20 minutes later they arrived in response to that first call

Do you dispute any of the above, with  evidence to support it  ( not assumptions or witness 'hearsay' ...  but actual evidence ? ) 

[Redblossom]

Could I have a reply please Icabodcrane?

Can I remind you of the Accommodation managers statement...

Vitor Manuel dos Santos

With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

Well that can't be right either. If the GNR took 20 minutes to arrive, the call to police must have been made at least between 9.40 and 9.50 if not earlier if many calls were made. See what I mean? ETA, IF the police left immediately

How could John Hill have been agitated between 10 and 10.15 when according to him the first he heard was near 10.30

The timings dont add up


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm

With regard to the facts of the investigation. Statements show that he knew of these facts by means of a phone call from Lindsay, head of the child care service, who told him about a female child staying at the resort who had disappeared. This phone call was made to the deponent's mobile phone at about 22.28 on 03-05-2007. About 5 minutes later the deponent presented himself at the resort, because Lindsay had told him that she had initiated the procedure for missing children used by the company and the child had not been found.


Answer:
Because John Hill assumed the police would be in the town
whereas they were 14 km away dealing with another call.

John

[John]

If you read the John Hill document you will note that it is written in part in the third person, namely...

With regard to the facts of the investigation. Statements show that he knew of these facts by means of a phone call from Lindsay, head of the child care service, who told him about a female child staying at the resort who had disappeared. This phone call was made to the deponent's mobile phone at about 22.28 on 03-05-2007.


Inspector Carlos Dordonnat never did his homework properly and missed the accommodation managers statement.  One wonders what else has been missed?

[icabodcrane]

Can I remind you of the Accommodation Manager's statement...

He had no reason to lie, had he?



Vitor Manuel dos Santos

With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

John,  this witness is reporting what someone else told him they had done   ...  it is hearsay, and of no evidential value

Why are you so determined to believe the police took too long to respond to the first call,  when all evidence  (  'hard' evidence )  proves they did not ?

[Redblossom]

John why have you amended my times in my previous post? The post makes no sense now. If by 10-10.15 Vitor  Manuel da Santos said he was called by Helda from reception and said John Hill was getting agitated because police hadnt arrived, after been called several times, it must mean police were called at least 9.40 if  it took them 20 minutes to get there???? Or earlier if they didnt respond immediately. Which makes no sense either if the alarm was raised after 10pm
 >@@(*&)


Also I dont think it is right that anyones post should be altered, moderated yes, but not altered in meaning, at least not saying why

[Redblossom]

If you read the John Hill document you will note that it is written in part in the third person, namely...

With regard to the facts of the investigation. Statements show that he knew of these facts by means of a phone call from Lindsay, head of the child care service, who told him about a female child staying at the resort who had disappeared. This phone call was made to the deponent's mobile phone at about 22.28 on 03-05-2007.


Inspector Carlos Dordonnat never did his homework properly and missed the accommodation managers statement.  One wonders what else has been missed?

John Hill didnt dispute it.

No more was said. Signs statement together with the interpreter.