Author Topic: Was there ever any evidence of criminality against the McCanns?  (Read 112386 times)

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Offline Benice

Re: Was there ever any evidence of criminality against the McCanns?
« Reply #330 on: May 04, 2013, 12:20:46 PM »
Luz knows there's no evidence of cleaning up. There's only, and it's a fact, the disturbing disturbance or rather alteration of the crime scene.

What alteration of the crime scene are you thinking about, Anne?
Hi Carana !
When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.
----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside.

10th May 2007

Ok, thanks, Anne.


I can see why those who think the McCanns staged an abduction might find that suspicious.

On the other hand, people were running around trying to work out what had happened, whether she could be hiding somewhere, moving furniture, whether someone had broken in...

With hindsight, it would be easy to think that no one should have touched anything. But even the GNR did, to double-check that she really wasn't there before calling the PJ.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it rarely takes the context and panic of the moment into consideration.

I agree Carana.  I think it's totally unreasonable to expect the McCanns and others to think and behave as policeman at such a time - when even the GNR, who could most definitely be expected to think and behave like policemen, failed to do so.



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Angelo222

Re: Was there ever any evidence of criminality against the McCanns?
« Reply #331 on: May 04, 2013, 12:29:24 PM »
Could that be because the GNR the National Republican Guard are effectively a military force policing civilians?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Was there ever any evidence of criminality against the McCanns?
« Reply #332 on: May 04, 2013, 12:30:04 PM »
Luz knows there's no evidence of cleaning up. There's only, and it's a fact, the disturbing disturbance or rather alteration of the crime scene.

What alteration of the crime scene are you thinking about, Anne?
Hi Carana !
When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.
----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside.

10th May 2007

Ok, thanks, Anne.


I can see why those who think the McCanns staged an abduction might find that suspicious.

On the other hand, people were running around trying to work out what had happened, whether she could be hiding somewhere, moving furniture, whether someone had broken in...

With hindsight, it would be easy to think that no one should have touched anything. But even the GNR did, to double-check that she really wasn't there before calling the PJ.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it rarely takes the context and panic of the moment into consideration.
Carana, I wouldn't say they "staged" the abduction. Had they, Mr McCann hadn't closed the window and the shutters.
For me, it would have been more than enough to see window and shutters open to convince me my child had been abducted. Why losing time looking in improbable places like a cupboard or under a bed ? I would certainly have rushed outside screaming my child's name like a poor human beast (as it happened to me once in a supermarket... no shame...).
I might have an overwhelming reptilian brain, because I wouldn't have experienced whether you could open the shutters from outside or not (the problem being mainly to avoid their noisy falling down after being released).

Offline Angelo222

Re: Was there ever any evidence of criminality against the McCanns?
« Reply #333 on: May 04, 2013, 12:43:50 PM »
You are way off base Anne.   When Gerry followed by many of the tapas 9 arrived at the apartment after Kate raised the alarm it wasn't a crime scene.  First and foremost it was a little girl had wandered off from her bedroom and was thought or at least hoped to be lurking somewhere nearby....thus the immediate searches.  Why do you think the Ocean Club has such a plan?  Was it just for fun?

It was very natural for Gerry to close the window and the shutters to protect the sleeping twins.  Maybe he should have left the window wide open and the shutters up for the entire neighbourhood to gawk in??

Too many silly conspiracy theories??
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Was there ever any evidence of criminality against the McCanns?
« Reply #334 on: May 04, 2013, 12:57:23 PM »
Luz knows there's no evidence of cleaning up. There's only, and it's a fact, the disturbing disturbance or rather alteration of the crime scene.

What alteration of the crime scene are you thinking about, Anne?
Hi Carana !
When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.
----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside.

10th May 2007

Ok, thanks, Anne.


I can see why those who think the McCanns staged an abduction might find that suspicious.

On the other hand, people were running around trying to work out what had happened, whether she could be hiding somewhere, moving furniture, whether someone had broken in...

With hindsight, it would be easy to think that no one should have touched anything. But even the GNR did, to double-check that she really wasn't there before calling the PJ.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it rarely takes the context and panic of the moment into consideration.
Carana, I wouldn't say they "staged" the abduction. Had they, Mr McCann hadn't closed the window and the shutters.
For me, it would have been more than enough to see window and shutters open to convince me my child had been abducted. Why losing time looking in improbable places like a cupboard or under a bed ? I would certainly have rushed outside screaming my child's name like a poor human beast (as it happened to me once in a supermarket... no shame...).
I might have an overwhelming reptilian brain, because I wouldn't have experienced whether you could open the shutters from outside or not (the problem being mainly to avoid their noisy falling down after being released).

Your mindset again. When my youngest was seven we were on a camping holiday on the Med and both boys were playing in the tent (a permanent tent from a Camping company). My older child came out while I was cooking and went off to the camp shop with my wife. Ten or fifteen minutes later I called out to the youngest and he did not respond. My first reaction was to search the tent in their bedroom and in ours and in the day area- no sign. Then I went and checked the toilets and shopwer area and looked along paths looking away from the tent. At no tiume did I think that shouting or reporting it would do any good. When I was about to get in the car and drive round the camp sight he appeared from way under our bed in the tent- he had fallen asleep.

People need to realise that people react in many ways when confronted with potential danger, some panic, some remain calm, some cry and shout, some search sensibly, some try to make sense of what happened and some people just panic. There is a wide variety of human response.

People with a hating mindset will obviously think the worst- as six years experience of this case shows!

Offline Carana

Re: Was there ever any evidence of criminality against the McCanns?
« Reply #335 on: May 04, 2013, 01:24:36 PM »
Luz knows there's no evidence of cleaning up. There's only, and it's a fact, the disturbing disturbance or rather alteration of the crime scene.

What alteration of the crime scene are you thinking about, Anne?
Hi Carana !
When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.
----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside.

10th May 2007

Ok, thanks, Anne.


I can see why those who think the McCanns staged an abduction might find that suspicious.

On the other hand, people were running around trying to work out what had happened, whether she could be hiding somewhere, moving furniture, whether someone had broken in...

With hindsight, it would be easy to think that no one should have touched anything. But even the GNR did, to double-check that she really wasn't there before calling the PJ.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it rarely takes the context and panic of the moment into consideration.
Carana, I wouldn't say they "staged" the abduction. Had they, Mr McCann hadn't closed the window and the shutters.
For me, it would have been more than enough to see window and shutters open to convince me my child had been abducted. Why losing time looking in improbable places like a cupboard or under a bed ? I would certainly have rushed outside screaming my child's name like a poor human beast (as it happened to me once in a supermarket... no shame...).
I might have an overwhelming reptilian brain, because I wouldn't have experienced whether you could open the shutters from outside or not (the problem being mainly to avoid their noisy falling down after being released).

At face value:
- The shutter was up and the window open.
- No one had noticed anyone going in through the patio doors (let alone coming out with a bundle).
- How could she have simply vanished?
- Everyone is panicking.
- Someone could have said to check if the shutter could be lifted from outside - clearly some people did decide to try.
- Someone may have wondered if Madeleiene could have pulled up the shutters by herself and tried to check if that was likely - even though I had considered that possibility, no one there found it plausible (too young).


AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Was there ever any evidence of criminality against the McCanns?
« Reply #336 on: May 04, 2013, 02:32:49 PM »
Luz knows there's no evidence of cleaning up. There's only, and it's a fact, the disturbing disturbance or rather alteration of the crime scene.

What alteration of the crime scene are you thinking about, Anne?
Hi Carana !
When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.
----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside.

10th May 2007

Ok, thanks, Anne.


I can see why those who think the McCanns staged an abduction might find that suspicious.

On the other hand, people were running around trying to work out what had happened, whether she could be hiding somewhere, moving furniture, whether someone had broken in...

With hindsight, it would be easy to think that no one should have touched anything. But even the GNR did, to double-check that she really wasn't there before calling the PJ.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it rarely takes the context and panic of the moment into consideration.
Carana, I wouldn't say they "staged" the abduction. Had they, Mr McCann hadn't closed the window and the shutters.
For me, it would have been more than enough to see window and shutters open to convince me my child had been abducted. Why losing time looking in improbable places like a cupboard or under a bed ? I would certainly have rushed outside screaming my child's name like a poor human beast (as it happened to me once in a supermarket... no shame...).
I might have an overwhelming reptilian brain, because I wouldn't have experienced whether you could open the shutters from outside or not (the problem being mainly to avoid their noisy falling down after being released).

Your mindset again. When my youngest was seven we were on a camping holiday on the Med and both boys were playing in the tent (a permanent tent from a Camping company). My older child came out while I was cooking and went off to the camp shop with my wife. Ten or fifteen minutes later I called out to the youngest and he did not respond. My first reaction was to search the tent in their bedroom and in ours and in the day area- no sign. Then I went and checked the toilets and shopwer area and looked along paths looking away from the tent. At no tiume did I think that shouting or reporting it would do any good. When I was about to get in the car and drive round the camp sight he appeared from way under our bed in the tent- he had fallen asleep.

People need to realise that people react in many ways when confronted with potential danger, some panic, some remain calm, some cry and shout, some search sensibly, some try to make sense of what happened and some people just panic. There is a wide variety of human response.

People with a hating mindset will obviously think the worst- as six years experience of this case shows!
Nurse Debunker, hating mindset ! You should hang your head in shame for suggesting this.
Your story is cute but I don't see in it any sign of abduction in it.
If you think that finding an open window, open shutters and a cold temperature (indicating the event is not recent) is no indication of abduction, it's your opinion. But it's not mine and I pray you to allow me thinking so.
The window in Madeleine's room remained closed, but she doesn't know if it was locked, blinds and curtains drawn. The window remained like this since the first day, night and day. She never opened it. If somebody saw the window blinds in Madeleine's room open, it was not Kate who opened them, she never saw them open.
6th Sept 2007

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Was there ever any evidence of criminality against the McCanns?
« Reply #337 on: May 04, 2013, 03:17:15 PM »
Luz knows there's no evidence of cleaning up. There's only, and it's a fact, the disturbing disturbance or rather alteration of the crime scene.

What alteration of the crime scene are you thinking about, Anne?
Hi Carana !
When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.
----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside.

10th May 2007

Ok, thanks, Anne.


I can see why those who think the McCanns staged an abduction might find that suspicious.

On the other hand, people were running around trying to work out what had happened, whether she could be hiding somewhere, moving furniture, whether someone had broken in...

With hindsight, it would be easy to think that no one should have touched anything. But even the GNR did, to double-check that she really wasn't there before calling the PJ.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it rarely takes the context and panic of the moment into consideration.
Carana, I wouldn't say they "staged" the abduction. Had they, Mr McCann hadn't closed the window and the shutters.
For me, it would have been more than enough to see window and shutters open to convince me my child had been abducted. Why losing time looking in improbable places like a cupboard or under a bed ? I would certainly have rushed outside screaming my child's name like a poor human beast (as it happened to me once in a supermarket... no shame...).
I might have an overwhelming reptilian brain, because I wouldn't have experienced whether you could open the shutters from outside or not (the problem being mainly to avoid their noisy falling down after being released).

Your mindset again. When my youngest was seven we were on a camping holiday on the Med and both boys were playing in the tent (a permanent tent from a Camping company). My older child came out while I was cooking and went off to the camp shop with my wife. Ten or fifteen minutes later I called out to the youngest and he did not respond. My first reaction was to search the tent in their bedroom and in ours and in the day area- no sign. Then I went and checked the toilets and shopwer area and looked along paths looking away from the tent. At no tiume did I think that shouting or reporting it would do any good. When I was about to get in the car and drive round the camp sight he appeared from way under our bed in the tent- he had fallen asleep.

People need to realise that people react in many ways when confronted with potential danger, some panic, some remain calm, some cry and shout, some search sensibly, some try to make sense of what happened and some people just panic. There is a wide variety of human response.

People with a hating mindset will obviously think the worst- as six years experience of this case shows!
Nurse Debunker, hating mindset ! You should hang your head in shame for suggesting this.
Your story is cute but I don't see in it any sign of abduction in it.
If you think that finding an open window, open shutters and a cold temperature (indicating the event is not recent) is no indication of abduction, it's your opinion. But it's not mine and I pray you to allow me thinking so.
The window in Madeleine's room remained closed, but she doesn't know if it was locked, blinds and curtains drawn. The window remained like this since the first day, night and day. She never opened it. If somebody saw the window blinds in Madeleine's room open, it was not Kate who opened them, she never saw them open.
6th Sept 2007

And thus demonstrating the thrust of the narrative- people react differently.