Was there ever any evidence of criminality against the McCanns?

[AnneGuedes]

the disposing of her body afterwards, never to be found, twice.  It is as simple as that.  No one could be that clever.
Or Could they be?

??? As simple as what ? Yes of course they could be...

[gilet]

Philosophers would make very, very poor judges.

Who is judging here ?

Who is saying anyone is judging here?

Though, I do judge people on their lies, especially academics.

[Eleanor]

Philosophers would make very, very poor judges.

Who is judging here ?

Certainly not you.

[AnneGuedes]

Philosophers would make very, very poor judges.

Who is judging here ?

Who is saying anyone is judging here?

Though, I do judge people on their lies, especially academics.

At least it's clear.

[Benice]

Benice, it is only your opinion that there is strong evidence that the two sightings were of the same man and child, the actual evidence says otherwise.

What evidence would that be please?

IMO there are far too many similarities in the descriptions for it to be put down to  coincidence - particularly the observations from both JT and the Smiths that the man did not look like a tourist, the child had bare feet and was wearing light coloured trousers possibly pajamas, and was not covered by a blanket even though the night was chilly.

I'm no mathematician, but surely the odds of it being two different men  - both being around the same age, height, build, colouring, and wearing similar clothing of similar hue,  both carrying a child, uncovered, with bare feet and wearing light coloured trousers, both in the same area, on the same night within the same hour, and both deciding not to come forward must be absolutely phenomenal?

I am a Mathematician, And with some sense of Logistics.  And as it happens, there is a miniscule possibility of The McCanns having been involved in the disappearance of their daughter.  But it is so miniscule as not to be worth the time of anyone's day, and certainly not in the disposing of her body afterwards, never to be found, twice.  It is as simple as that.  No one could be that clever.
Or Could they be?

Not in my world Eleanor, because not only would they BOTH have to be criminal masterminds, as well as Oscar winning actors, they would also BOTH have to be raving psychopaths to be able to commit such an unspeakable crime and then casually stroll over to the Tapas restaurant and enjoy a meal afterwards in a calm and relaxed manner as if nothing had happened.    Particularly as they would know all the time that in a hour or so all hell was going to break loose - when they raised the alarm.    IMO Their friends would also ALL have to be mentally deranged or terminally stupid to agree to help them cover up the death and disposal of a child which some claim is what happened. 

There is no evidence at all of any of the above being the case - and therefore no reason to give it any credence whatsoever.



 

[gilet]

Philosophers would make very, very poor judges.

Who is judging here ?

Who is saying anyone is judging here?

Though, I do judge people on their lies, especially academics.

At least it's clear.

What is clear?

[AnneGuedes]

Benice, it is only your opinion that there is strong evidence that the two sightings were of the same man and child, the actual evidence says otherwise.

What evidence would that be please?

IMO there are far too many similarities in the descriptions for it to be put down to  coincidence - particularly the observations from both JT and the Smiths that the man did not look like a tourist, the child had bare feet and was wearing light coloured trousers possibly pajamas, and was not covered by a blanket even though the night was chilly.

I'm no mathematician, but surely the odds of it being two different men  - both being around the same age, height, build, colouring, and wearing similar clothing of similar hue,  both carrying a child, uncovered, with bare feet and wearing light coloured trousers, both in the same area, on the same night within the same hour, and both deciding not to come forward must be absolutely phenomenal?

I am a Mathematician, And with some sense of Logistics.  And as it happens, there is a miniscule possibility of The McCanns having been involved in the disappearance of their daughter.  But it is so miniscule as not to be worth the time of anyone's day, and certainly not in the disposing of her body afterwards, never to be found, twice.  It is as simple as that.  No one could be that clever.
Or Could they be?

Not in my world Eleanor, because not only would they BOTH have to be criminal masterminds, as well as Oscar winning actors, they would also BOTH have to be raving psychopaths to be able to commit such an unspeakable crime and then casually stroll over to the Tapas restaurant and enjoy a meal afterwards in a calm and relaxed manner as if nothing had happened.    Particularly as they would know all the time that in a hour or so all hell was going to break loose - when they raised the alarm.    IMO Their friends would also ALL have to be mentally deranged or terminally stupid to agree to help them cover up the death and disposal of a child which some claim is what happened. 

There is no evidence at all of any of the above being the case - and therefore no reason to give it any credence whatsoever.



 

Sure, then why do you give it some credence mentioning it ?
" be able to commit such an unspeakable crime and then casually stroll over to the Tapas restaurant and enjoy a meal afterwards in a calm and relaxed manner as if nothing had happened." Who believe this ?

[Benice]

Benice, it is only your opinion that there is strong evidence that the two sightings were of the same man and child, the actual evidence says otherwise.

What evidence would that be please?

IMO there are far too many similarities in the descriptions for it to be put down to  coincidence - particularly the observations from both JT and the Smiths that the man did not look like a tourist, the child had bare feet and was wearing light coloured trousers possibly pajamas, and was not covered by a blanket even though the night was chilly.

I'm no mathematician, but surely the odds of it being two different men  - both being around the same age, height, build, colouring, and wearing similar clothing of similar hue,  both carrying a child, uncovered, with bare feet and wearing light coloured trousers, both in the same area, on the same night within the same hour, and both deciding not to come forward must be absolutely phenomenal?

I am a Mathematician, And with some sense of Logistics.  And as it happens, there is a miniscule possibility of The McCanns having been involved in the disappearance of their daughter.  But it is so miniscule as not to be worth the time of anyone's day, and certainly not in the disposing of her body afterwards, never to be found, twice.  It is as simple as that.  No one could be that clever.
Or Could they be?

Not in my world Eleanor, because not only would they BOTH have to be criminal masterminds, as well as Oscar winning actors, they would also BOTH have to be raving psychopaths to be able to commit such an unspeakable crime and then casually stroll over to the Tapas restaurant and enjoy a meal afterwards in a calm and relaxed manner as if nothing had happened.    Particularly as they would know all the time that in a hour or so all hell was going to break loose - when they raised the alarm.    IMO Their friends would also ALL have to be mentally deranged or terminally stupid to agree to help them cover up the death and disposal of a child which some claim is what happened. 

There is no evidence at all of any of the above being the case - and therefore no reason to give it any credence whatsoever.



 

Sure, then why do you give it some credence mentioning it ?
" be able to commit such an unspeakable crime and then casually stroll over to the Tapas restaurant and enjoy a meal afterwards in a calm and relaxed manner as if nothing had happened." Who believe this ?

Many of the sceptics believe it - do you?

[icabodcrane]

I'd like to address the protestation that it would be impossible  for the McCanns to appear 'normal'  in a situation where they were aware that some tragedy had befallen their child

Within a matter of days of their three year old daughter having been snatched from her bed, and carried off into the darkness by a predator  (  according to them )  the McCanns were photographed smiling broadly as they left church on what would have been their daughter's fourth birthday

Within two weeks of Madeleine's disappearance both Kate and Gerry were going for runs, and Gerry was playing tennis with the the Mark Warner tennis coach.  There were no tears when interviewed, and Gerry McCann was filmed on a balcony, laughing and gesturing animatedly

When people remarked that all this seemed a bit 'off'  they were scolded for not understanding that how people deal with personal tragedy is entirely unpredicible,  and that no-one knows how they might react until they are faced with that trauma themselves

Which always sounded fair and reasonable to me

Here's the question though  ...  how can any of us predict how the McCanns would have behaved that night  (  if they were aware that some tragedy had occurred ) ?

We  accept that their situation is outside anything we can imagine, and their behaviour entirely  unpredictible as a consequence  ...  so how can we say, with certainty, that they would not have been able to behave 'normally'  ?

[AnneGuedes]

Many of the sceptics believe it - do you?

No, but I'm a sceptic as you've surely guessed !

[Chinagirl]

I'd like to address the protestation that it would be impossible  for the McCanns to appear 'normal'  in a situation where they were aware that some tragedy had befallen their child

Within a matter of days of their three year old daughter having been snatched from her bed, and carried off into the darkness by a predator  (  according to them )  the McCanns were photographed smiling broadly as they left church on what would have been their daughter's fourth birthday

Within two weeks of Madeleine's disappearance both Kate and Gerry were going for runs, and Gerry was playing tennis with the the Mark Warner tennis coach.  There were no tears when interviewed, and Gerry McCann was filmed on a balcony, laughing and gesturing animatedly

When people remarked that all this seemed a bit 'off'  they were scolded for not understanding that how people deal with personal tragedy is entirely unpredicible,  and that no-one knows how they might react until they are faced with that trauma themselves

Which always sounded fair and reasonable to me

Here's the question though  ...  how can any of us predict how the McCanns would have behaved that night  (  if they were aware that some tragedy had occurred ) ?

We  accept that their situation is outside anything we can imagine, and their behaviour entirely  unpredictible as a consequence  ...  so how can we say, with certainty, that they would not have been able to behave 'normally'  ?

Oh well - these old conceptions had to surface here sooner later - condemning the McCanns because they were caught smiling; going running, playing tennis; no public displays of grief; Kate wearing earrings, having her hair done.
 

[Eleanor]

Benice, it is only your opinion that there is strong evidence that the two sightings were of the same man and child, the actual evidence says otherwise.

What evidence would that be please?

IMO there are far too many similarities in the descriptions for it to be put down to  coincidence - particularly the observations from both JT and the Smiths that the man did not look like a tourist, the child had bare feet and was wearing light coloured trousers possibly pajamas, and was not covered by a blanket even though the night was chilly.

I'm no mathematician, but surely the odds of it being two different men  - both being around the same age, height, build, colouring, and wearing similar clothing of similar hue,  both carrying a child, uncovered, with bare feet and wearing light coloured trousers, both in the same area, on the same night within the same hour, and both deciding not to come forward must be absolutely phenomenal?

I am a Mathematician, And with some sense of Logistics.  And as it happens, there is a miniscule possibility of The McCanns having been involved in the disappearance of their daughter.  But it is so miniscule as not to be worth the time of anyone's day, and certainly not in the disposing of her body afterwards, never to be found, twice.  It is as simple as that.  No one could be that clever.
Or Could they be?

Not in my world Eleanor, because not only would they BOTH have to be criminal masterminds, as well as Oscar winning actors, they would also BOTH have to be raving psychopaths to be able to commit such an unspeakable crime and then casually stroll over to the Tapas restaurant and enjoy a meal afterwards in a calm and relaxed manner as if nothing had happened.    Particularly as they would know all the time that in a hour or so all hell was going to break loose - when they raised the alarm.    IMO Their friends would also ALL have to be mentally deranged or terminally stupid to agree to help them cover up the death and disposal of a child which some claim is what happened. 

There is no evidence at all of any of the above being the case - and therefore no reason to give it any credence whatsoever.



 

Sorry.  I was just saying that there is a very vague and almost impossible possibility.  I don't actually believe that it was possible.  But then that is just me.

And since there is absolutely no possibility of it ever coming to Trial, then I think we can safely discard any possibility of  the impossible.

Sheesh.  What am I doing here.

[gilet]

I'd like to address the protestation that it would be impossible  for the McCanns to appear 'normal'  in a situation where they were aware that some tragedy had befallen their child

Within a matter of days of their three year old daughter having been snatched from her bed, and carried off into the darkness by a predator  (  according to them )  the McCanns were photographed smiling broadly as they left church on what would have been their daughter's fourth birthday

Within two weeks of Madeleine's disappearance both Kate and Gerry were going for runs, and Gerry was playing tennis with the the Mark Warner tennis coach.  There were no tears when interviewed, and Gerry McCann was filmed on a balcony, laughing and gesturing animatedly

When people remarked that all this seemed a bit 'off'  they were scolded for not understanding that how people deal with personal tragedy is entirely unpredicible,  and that no-one knows how they might react until they are faced with that trauma themselves

Which always sounded fair and reasonable to me

Here's the question though  ...  how can any of us predict how the McCanns would have behaved that night  (  if they were aware that some tragedy had occurred ) ?

We  accept that their situation is outside anything we can imagine, and their behaviour entirely  unpredictible as a consequence  ...  so how can we say, with certainty, that they would not have been able to behave 'normally'  ?

Oh well - these old conceptions had to surface here sooner later - condemning the McCanns because they were caught smiling; going running, playing tennis; no public displays of grief; Kate wearing earrings, having her hair done.
 

Indeed.

Isn't it interesting that those who pretend to want to discuss "evidence" always seem to fall back on such matters as the impossibility of predicting behaviour.

Nobody on a forum who has seen the McCanns from media clips and interviews can have the slightest idea what the real feelings that couple were experiencing were.

Guessing as to their guilt based on watching them for a few minutes at a time on TV is lunacy. But that is what some people suggest we should do. Guessing about the way people react to trauma is also lunacy but anti McCanns make a great deal of such matters.

[Eleanor]

I think I am going to go to bed.  Nothing to be gained from discussing nothing.  There will never be a Court Case about this, so there really isn't anything worth talking about.

[gilet]

I think I am going to go to bed.  Nothing to be gained from discussing nothing.  There will never be a Court Case about this, so there really isn't anything worth talking about.

Precisely, because though some people want to pretend there is evidence of criminality, there actually isn't. Its all been studied by the police and prosecutors and dismissed.