Author Topic: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry  (Read 10287 times)

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registrar

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Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« on: May 01, 2013, 11:01:39 AM »
Quite a few threads now seem to contain discussions about linguistic acrobatics rather than the facts of the case of a disappeared child in the Algarve.

If you had the opportunity to ask just ONE question of Goncalo Amaral and/or Kate and Gerry McCann today -what would it be?

Seriously - just a straightforward question pertaining to the facts of the case - not a diatribe dressed up as question - we have enough of those already. 
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 11:16:19 AM by registrar »

debunker

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Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Jerry
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2013, 11:10:19 AM »
What have Carter Ruck said about the feasibility of reigning-in people on Twitter and Forums in light of the McAlpine case?

registrar

  • Guest
Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Jerry
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2013, 11:12:17 AM »
Question to Amaral: Why as the co-ordinator of the investigation did you not follow up on the witness statement of Antonio Castela?

Question to the McCanns: Why as intelligent professionals did you ask Mr. Krügel to bring his miracle machine to the Algarve to locate Madeleine?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 11:17:53 AM by registrar »

Offline Chinagirl

Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 11:22:31 AM »
Registrar - who was Antonio Castela?  Sorry - name doesn't ring a bell.
A

registrar

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« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 11:27:14 AM by registrar »

Offline Chinagirl

Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 11:27:49 AM »
Thank you, Registrar.

ETA:  Ahh - the taxi driver.  Yes, good question.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 11:31:32 AM by Chinagirl »
A

registrar

  • Guest
Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 11:44:52 AM »
Thanks Martha,

I was not aware of this at all - like the Taxi Driver's sighting these hold more potential relevance than any NZ/Bosnia etc sightings - months/years after the event IMO

Because they happened close to the time of disappearance
and
on Portuguese soil

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2013, 12:04:49 PM »
Debunker - this thread unlike myriad others you have created is NOT about YOU and your precious dictionaries

Do read the OP

I did read the OP and as the first to respond with a clear question:

"What have Carter Ruck said about the feasibility of reigning-in people on Twitter and Forums in light of the McAlpine case?"


Offline Benice

Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2013, 12:17:57 PM »
To Amaral.

If as you claim Jane Tanner positively identified Murat as the man she saw abducting Madeleine, then why did you not feel it was vital to record this momentous/crucial evidence in a Witness statement signed by her as a matter of urgency  - when you must have known that without a written, signed statement it was only 'Hearsay' and of no legal use to the investigation.    Why, when your officers rang you to ask if she needed to sign anything the answer was 'no' - and she was sent home?


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

registrar

  • Guest
Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2013, 12:23:03 PM »
To Amaral.

If as you claim Jane Tanner positively identified Murat as the man she saw abducting Madeleine, then why did you not feel it was vital to record this momentous/crucial evidence in a Witness statement signed by her as a matter of urgency  - when you must have known that without a written, signed statement it was only 'Hearsay' and of no legal use to the investigation.    Why, when your officers rang you to ask if she needed to sign anything the answer was 'no' - and she was sent home?

lack of follow up - quite

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2013, 12:24:02 PM »
You asked:

"If you had the opportunity to ask just ONE question of Goncalo Amaral and/or Kate and Gerry McCann today -what would it be?

Seriously - just a straightforward question pertaining to the facts of the case - not a diatribe dressed up as question - we have enough of those already."

One of the 'Facts' of this case is the McCanns stoic and sensible approach to libel and harassment in choosing only the most egregious cases- The Express Group and Tony Bennett amonst them.

You asked what question I would like to ask. I answered.

Simples.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2013, 12:40:50 PM »
To Amaral:

Admittedly your colleague PJ Inspector Dias wrote these words after you had been removed.  But he clearly drew on the same source material as was available to you and said:

Eddie, the dog with an advanced training to detect mortal victims (E.V.R.D.), searches and locates human remains and body fluids, including blood, in any environment or terrain. The initial training of the dog was done with human blood and decaying piglets that were born dead. The importance of this training is that the dog learnt to identify the odour of a decaying body that is not food. This guaranties that the dog ignores the 'bacon sandwich' and the 'kebab', etc. that are always present in the environment. Besides that the dog will not alert to a meal prepared at home or on any other place. For instance, the dog will be efficient on searching a cadaver in café where the clients can be seated eating a bacon sandwich. As a complement of this training, the dog receives an additional training in the USA, in association with the FBI, in which will be used exclusively human remains' (sic) (page 2493 and 2494).

This summarized description raises a question that we would like to see answered: could the dog be 'marking' not the odours emanated from a cadaver, directly or indirectly (by contagious), but from blood in putrefaction'

These dogs are means for obtaining proof but they cannot be used as proof. They must be taken as instruments. Any vestige, even invisible to the eye, recovered with the use of these dogs, has to be subjected to forensic exam on a credited laboratory.

It is the same Martin Grime that, at pages 2271, refers on his report: 'Although it cannot constitute proof admissible to court, it can help on the recovery of intelligence for the investigation of serious crimes'.

In this case the dogs signalled several places. The technicians of the Scientific Police Laboratory recovered those vestiges ' vestiges that that on it's majority were not visible to the eye ' and sent them to the laboratories for the necessary forensic exams, in order to recover and identify the DNA profiles, that might be extracted from them.

From the screening of the videos, referred previously, done when the dogs were working, some doubts arise. We don't want and we can't take the place of the trainer, we only wish to alert, with this paragraph, to some facts, that according to us, need further clarification.

If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'

On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'

Apart from all that was said about the dogs, we must also take into attention the results of the forensic analysis that was performed by the experts on the Scientific Police Laboratory on the day immediately after the facts, and already mentioned where no vestige of blood was found.


Inspector Dias clearly understood what he read.

Why didn't you?

Offline Angelo222

Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2013, 12:48:47 PM »
To Amaral.

If as you claim Jane Tanner positively identified Murat as the man she saw abducting Madeleine, then why did you not feel it was vital to record this momentous/crucial evidence in a Witness statement signed by her as a matter of urgency  - when you must have known that without a written, signed statement it was only 'Hearsay' and of no legal use to the investigation.    Why, when your officers rang you to ask if she needed to sign anything the answer was 'no' - and she was sent home?

Good question Benice.  I wouldn't expect an answer from Amaral though as his crystal ball is indisposed at the moment.  He had a great knack of putting 4 and 4 together and getting 44 instead of 8.  Alas and it was all going so well for him at one time.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2013, 01:04:21 PM »
To Amaral:

Admittedly your colleague PJ Inspector Dias wrote these words after you had been removed.  But he clearly drew on the same source material as was available to you and said:

Eddie, the dog with an advanced training to detect mortal victims (E.V.R.D.), searches and locates human remains and body fluids, including blood, in any environment or terrain. The initial training of the dog was done with human blood and decaying piglets that were born dead. The importance of this training is that the dog learnt to identify the odour of a decaying body that is not food. This guaranties that the dog ignores the 'bacon sandwich' and the 'kebab', etc. that are always present in the environment. Besides that the dog will not alert to a meal prepared at home or on any other place. For instance, the dog will be efficient on searching a cadaver in café where the clients can be seated eating a bacon sandwich. As a complement of this training, the dog receives an additional training in the USA, in association with the FBI, in which will be used exclusively human remains' (sic) (page 2493 and 2494).

This summarized description raises a question that we would like to see answered: could the dog be 'marking' not the odours emanated from a cadaver, directly or indirectly (by contagious), but from blood in putrefaction'

These dogs are means for obtaining proof but they cannot be used as proof. They must be taken as instruments. Any vestige, even invisible to the eye, recovered with the use of these dogs, has to be subjected to forensic exam on a credited laboratory.

It is the same Martin Grime that, at pages 2271, refers on his report: 'Although it cannot constitute proof admissible to court, it can help on the recovery of intelligence for the investigation of serious crimes'.

In this case the dogs signalled several places. The technicians of the Scientific Police Laboratory recovered those vestiges ' vestiges that that on it's majority were not visible to the eye ' and sent them to the laboratories for the necessary forensic exams, in order to recover and identify the DNA profiles, that might be extracted from them.

From the screening of the videos, referred previously, done when the dogs were working, some doubts arise. We don't want and we can't take the place of the trainer, we only wish to alert, with this paragraph, to some facts, that according to us, need further clarification.

If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'

On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'

Apart from all that was said about the dogs, we must also take into attention the results of the forensic analysis that was performed by the experts on the Scientific Police Laboratory on the day immediately after the facts, and already mentioned where no vestige of blood was found.


Inspector Dias clearly understood what he read.

Why didn't you?

The simple answer is that he did but didn't want to ruin his credibility as a master investigator.  Amaral wanted the McCanns to be guilty, he craved the publicity.  His bosses could see how he had misread the evidence, he crossed the line and put his own theories before that of the evidence.

One thing I will add to those stated comments above.  The PJ are wrong to state that Eddie only alerted to human blood and corpses.  There are many other substances that he would also react to.  Time for a new myth?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

registrar

  • Guest
Re: Just one question to Goncalo or Kate and Gerry
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2013, 01:47:10 PM »
This might not be palatable to some

but faeces is another substance the pooches react to