The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.

[Benice]

no evidence either way so it is certainly a possibility...in my opinion a very strong possibility...

There are some professions where people are far more likely to come into contact with cadaverscent than the general public  - and police officers come into that category IMO.

[Mr Gray]

Acknowledging the existence of positive alerts and refusing to accept that they are of no more significance in the investigation than had they not existed at all is not an "untruth which needs correcting."

What seems transparent from the rigorous "Truth- Seekers and Steppers- in to Correct People" is, imo, the need to deflect any notion of possible Cadaver , Child Neglect and Culpability away from the McCanns...........It is insidious, manipulative and in my view, not really honest in claiming to be an exercise in reasoning.

First...if there  were no dog alerts...it would be a possibility that maddie died in the appt...bringing in the dogs  adds nothing as Grime has not told us how reliable these alerts are...Im not interested what posters on this forum imagine...its what Grime says that counts..

secondly if posters are going to post their opinions as fact...ie the dogs have never made a false alert..  now that is dishonest    ......then it is right to challenge such a statement..

You must understand that posters can have genuine opinions based on the evidence. in my opinion the mccanns were not neglectful and were certainly not culpable

[Benice]

EXACTLY.

People have no idea about the training of these dogs, its constantly ongoing it has to be.

For me they are 100 percent accurate regardless of what people want to believe. The two dogs used at the time, highly trained and very expensive to use.

But of course pointless in saying this lol, as we get told they were useless and smelt pork, nappies etc.

SOMETHING happened in that apartment without a doubt the dog was very anxious to get in there, so could scent something from the door onwards.....until he found the source.

Well in one of the apartments (the villa?)  the dogs got very excited - one kept going round a bed with his nose to the floor and the other was very interested in what was behind a piece of furniture and kept going back to it.   Both dogs had to be constantly called away.      At the end of the video Grime explained that a scrap of food had been found under the bed and a ball behind the piece of furniture.      So it's not just the odours they were trained to find which got these highly trained dogs excited.     They are still dogs at the end of the day - not perfectly programmed robots.

 

   

[pegasus]

Cadaver scent on a piece of clothing does NOT incriminate the individual who owns that piece of clothing.

[AnneGuedes]

Well in one of the apartments (the villa?)  the dogs got very excited - one kept going round a bed with his nose to the floor and the other was very interested in what was behind a piece of furniture and kept going back to it.   Both dogs had to be constantly called away.      At the end of the video Grime explained that a scrap of food had been found under the bed and a ball behind the piece of furniture.      So it's not just the odours they were trained to find which got these highly trained dogs excited.     They are still dogs at the end of the day - not perfectly programmed robots.

Did the dogs alert, Benice ? And have you a link for that, please ?

[Benice]

Did the dogs alert, Benice ? And have you a link for that, please ?

It's on one of Grime's videos Anne.      No the dogs didn't alert.  I was just pointing out that because the dogs got excited, that didn't necessarily mean they had got a whiff  of cadaverscent or blood  and couldn't wait to get to it.    Other smells got them excited too.   

 

[AnneGuedes]

It's on one of Grime's videos Anne.      No the dogs didn't alert.  I was just pointing out that because the dogs got excited, that didn't necessarily mean they had got a whiff  of cadaverscent or blood  and couldn't wait to get to it.    Other smells got them excited too.

In Mr Grime's report, he only mentions that in one of the flats the dog (Eddie) was interested in a garbage bin, that seemed to have some pork meat inside, but the dog didn't alert. This is the important point.
As you know dogs lose time in places where VOCs from various origins are close to each other, because it takes him time to discriminate between the compounds.
There were no alert indications from the remaining properties. I did however see the dog search in the kitchen waste bins. These contained meat foodstuffs including pork and did not result in any false alert response.
Vol 9 pp. 2473 to 2483

[Benice]

EXACTLY.

People have no idea about the training of these dogs, its constantly ongoing it has to be.

For me they are 100 percent accurate regardless of what people want to believe. The two dogs used at the time, highly trained and very expensive to use.

But of course pointless in saying this lol, as we get told they were useless and smelt pork, nappies etc.

SOMETHING happened in that apartment without a doubt the dog was very anxious to get in there, so could scent something from the door onwards.....until he found the source.

If they are 100% accurate then why - (during his search of the villa) -  didn't Eddie alert to the cadaverscent on those same items of clothing  - that he later alerted to after they were removed from the villa  and transferred to the gym?

Surely missing all of them completely in the villa - as he did -  would constitute a definite 'fail'.

   

[pegasus]

If they are 100% accurate then why - (during his search of the villa) -  didn't Eddie alert to the cadaverscent on those same items of clothing  - that he later alerted to after they were removed from the villa  and transferred to the gym?

Surely missing all of them completely in the villa - as he did -  would constitute a definite 'fail'.

No-one believes me but the answer IMO is that Eddie's alert in the villa was to one of the neat folded piles of clothing on the dresser in the living area.
The same clothes that were signalled later at Portimao (from the living area box).
IMO the cat was never signalled.

[AnneGuedes]

If they are 100% accurate then why - (during his search of the villa) -  didn't Eddie alert to the cadaverscent on those same items of clothing  - that he later alerted to after they were removed from the villa  and transferred to the gym?

Surely missing all of them completely in the villa - as he did -  would constitute a definite 'fail'.

Contaminated clothes in the middle of uncontaminated ones don't originate a scent cone. This is why the clothes were deployed in the garage.
Passing near something without alerting doesn't necessarily eliminate a dog in tests. What does is alerting falsely.

[Redblossom]

No-one believes me but the answer IMO is that Eddie's alert in the villa was to one of the neat folded piles of clothing on the dresser in the living area.
The same clothes that were signalled later at Portimao (from the living area box).
IMO the cat was never signalled.

See posts 373/274 here

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1619.270

There were no clothes there, it was a load of files/papers IMO

[Redblossom]

Anyone who has watched the unedited videos of the dog searches knows that the dogs were manipulated by their handler.
This was Martin Grime's first job as a self employed dog handler so it was in his own interests to make a hit.
Using these videos he then went on to land The Jersey Job at a smacking great £93,000 Fee.  And we all know what happened there.

Its a wonder that Mr Grme would deliberately manipulate the dogs whllst beng videoed for all the world to see

 

BTW please note PDL wasnt his first job as a self employed handler, rather his last job whllst working for South Yorkshire police, it is in his statement, which can be found in the files.  So please dont  repeat that falsehood and infer he fraudulently made the dogs alert, that would be absolutely stupid and of no value to him or his reputation or portfolio

As for costs in Jersey, he was there for nearly five months, so the fees did add up, nothing wrong with that, the whole investigation cost over 20 million, drop in the ocean for such an important element of it!

[Eleanor]

Its a wonder that Mr Grme would deliberately manipulate the dogs whllst beng videoed for all the world to see

 

BTW please note PDL wasnt his first job as a self employed handler, rather his last job whllst working for South Yorkshire police, it is in his statement, which can be found in the files.  So please dont  repeat that falsehood and infer he fraudulently made the dogs alert, that would be absolutely stupid and of no value to him or his reputation or portfolio

As for costs in Jersey, he was there for nearly five months, so the fees did add up, nothing wrong with that, the whole investigation cost over 20 million, drop in the ocean for such an important element of it!

Wrong.  Martin Grime was on retirement leave when he went to PdL.

Five months and £93,000 to find a coconut shell.  Good work if you can get it.

[Redblossom]

Wrong.  Martin Grime was on retirement leave when he went to PdL.

I am a retired police offer, previously at the service of the South Yorkshire police. Between August 1-8, 2007, and while working for the South Yorkshire police, I collaborated with the Judicial Police, Portugal, as regards their Operations Task Force.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm


He went to PDL as an employee of SYP, not self employed

Do you think  he was moonlighting on his holiday?

 

Perhaps you have his bank account statements though that prove the PJ paid him rather than SYP

[ferryman]

Wrong.  Martin Grime was on retirement leave when he went to PdL.

Five months and £93,000 to find a coconut shell.  Good work if you can get it.

I'm unsure if that's conclusively proved.

But I think the inference is perfectly reasonable.

ETA:  No quarrel with the second part of your post: true!