The Portuguese Police thought the dogs were 100% accurate.

[Mr Gray]

I understand most things perfectly well.

I understand that you think Redwoods view is wishful thinking. I understand that you think the dog alerts are clues. I understand that you acknowledge cadaver scent exists. I understand that an alert without forensic evidence by default only leaves the cadaver scent, that you acknowledge can exist without a cadaver being present. I understand that grime saying MAY have been present is because the same dog alerts to blood (I'll skip the toenails and other such nonsense), which in areas wasn't present therefore only leaving the cadaver scent that you acknowledge exists.

I also understand that you consider Madeleine most probably dead. What I don't understand is why you are so desperate to discredit the dogs who you admit can smell cadaver scent without a cadaver being present. Your bias towards a false cadaver scent alert is flawed and makes no logical sense.

First I acknowledge the existence of cadaver scent but I didn't acknowledge its presence in the apt..it may have been there..maybe not

I have never discredited the dogs...and I have never talked of a false cadaver scent

I accept what grime says...as far as Im concerned hes the expert

[Mr Gray]

I understand most things perfectly well.

I understand that you think Redwoods view is wishful thinking. I understand that you think the dog alerts are clues. I understand that you acknowledge cadaver scent exists. I understand that an alert without forensic evidence by default only leaves the cadaver scent, that you acknowledge can exist without a cadaver being present. I understand that grime saying MAY have been present is because the same dog alerts to blood (I'll skip the toenails and other such nonsense), which in areas wasn't present therefore only leaving the cadaver scent that you acknowledge exists.

I also understand that you consider Madeleine most probably dead. What I don't understand is why you are so desperate to discredit the dogs who you admit can smell cadaver scent without a cadaver being present. Your bias towards a false cadaver scent alert is flawed and makes no logical sense.

reading your post I don't think you have understood anything I have said

[John]

Well not surprisingly I disagree...

So you think posters on here know as much as grime regarding the dogs...what a bizarre statement...whats the point in calling him as an expert witness...may as well call Colombo

As for stating the dogs alerts have no evidential value..it was grime who sated that not me...but of course grime doesn't know anymore than the posters on here anyway..

keeping his powder dry?...grime has already  stated quite clearly his opinions on the alerts..

and finally..the presence of  a live investigation didn't stop the lead detective writing a book on the subject...

what a pigs ear the whole thing has been made

Read my post!  I stated Mr Grime knows no more than any of us as to whether a cadaver lay in that apartment.  As an expert witness he will testify as to the dog alerts, nothing more.

When Grime stated that the alerts had no evidential value he was referring to such in the context of Madeleine McCann.   The alerts are evidence of something of course but even he doesn't know what.

Mr Grime will not respond to questions on the case as he knows very well that it might well come to court.  At least isn't that why SY are ending £'millions on it?

[Mr Gray]

Read my post!  I stated Mr Grime knows no more than any of us as to whether a cadaver lay in that apartment.  As an expert witness he will testify as to the dog alerts, nothing more.

When Grime stated that the alerts had no evidential value he was referring to such in the context of Madeleine McCann.   The alerts are evidence of something of course but even he doesn't know what.

Mr Grime will not respond to questions on the case as he knows very well that it might well come to court.  At least isn't that why SY are ending £'millions on it?

I think grime knows a lot more than some of the posters on here

I disagree about the evidential value of the alerts..in any search without corroboration the alerts have no evidential value...thats my interpretation of grime ..you have yours

why should grime respond anyway..as far as Im concerned hes already made himself clear

[John]

Is this the comment you are referring to Redblossom?

When researching the validity of sniffer-dog evidence later that month, Gerry would discover that false alerts can be attributable to the conscious or unconscious signals of the handler. From what I saw of the dogs’ responses, this certainly seemed to me to be what was happening here.

[Mr Gray]

Is this the comment you are referring to Redblossom?

I don't think grime could risk taking libel action for this statement...certainly in no way cut and dried

[icabodcrane]

Is this the comment you are referring to Redblossom?

I have read Kate McCann's book but I didn't notice the accusation she made there  ...  thanks for highlighting it John

So Kate  says that the explanation for the cadaver dog alerting in their apartment was that Mr Grime 'signalled'  the dog to do so

I suppose Martin Grime might have a case for libel, right there

[Lyall]

I have read Kate McCann's book but I didn't notice the accusation she made there  ...  thanks for highlighting it John

So Kate  says that the explanation for the cadaver dog alerting in their apartment was that Mr Grime 'signalled'  the dog to do so

I suppose Martin Grime might have a case for libel, right there

Nah that book is watertight. Hand built by lawyers.

But some posters here and elsewhere have clearly frequently gone much further.

[Mr Gray]

I have read Kate McCann's book but I didn't notice the accusation she made there  ...  thanks for highlighting it John

So Kate  says that the explanation for the cadaver dog alerting in their apartment was that Mr Grime 'signalled'  the dog to do so

I suppose Martin Grime might have a case for libel, right there

Kate said...from what she saw...grime seemed to be cuing the dog...

that's not the same as saying he DID cue the dog

You may call that nitpicking...that's what lawyers do all day long

[Mr Gray]

Nah that book is watertight. Hand built by lawyers.

But some posters here and elsewhere have clearly frequently gone much further.

you may well be right...and very sensible...other authors may wish they had been as careful

[icabodcrane]

Nah that book is watertight. Hand built by lawyers.

But some posters here and elsewhere have clearly frequently gone much further.

You're probably right Lyall,  the McCanns have had the most expensive and high-flying lawyers on the payroll for a very long time  and it is unlikely a foot has been put wrong legally as a consequence  (  I'm speaking of the letter of the law, rather than the spirit of it  ) 

Still an' all,  it's a bit low for the McCanns to be making unfounded sneaky and snide remarks in order to  besmirch a professional  like Martin Grime

[VIXTE]

I have read Kate McCann's book but I didn't notice the accusation she made there  ...  thanks for highlighting it John

So Kate  says that the explanation for the cadaver dog alerting in their apartment was that Mr Grime 'signalled'  the dog to do so

I suppose Martin Grime might have a case for libel, right there

Funny!
Why then Grime doesn't sue the McCanns?

[icabodcrane]

Funny!
Why then Grime doesn't sue the McCanns?

Well,  Ecclesiastes 3  (  King James Version  )  comes to mind

...  To every thing there is a season ...

[VIXTE]

Well,  Ecclesiastes 3  (  King James Version  )  comes to mind

...  To every thing there is a season ...

ah.. dream on..

[Mr Gray]

Well,  Ecclesiastes 3  (  King James Version  )  comes to mind

...  To every thing there is a season ...

 I don't think grime would want to discuss the dogs skills...and limitations ..in a court room