What do you think happened to Madeleine?

[ferryman]

Yes, thank you, I'm fairly familiar with the theory of the two dogs in tandem. But as BOTH dogs had been trained to alert to dried blood from live people, Eddie  (the now sadly dead dog) SHOULD have alerted all over the place, IF he had been deployed through the resort, but there is no evidence at all of that having happened from what I can see in the files. My  hypothetical question to Mr. Grime & the PJ would therefore have been, why wasn't that done?

I don't think that is correct Mrs B

Eddie was not  'trained'  to alert to blood,  he was trained to alert to death scent

There was a possibility  that he would alert to blood alone, and that is why Keela was deployed as a backup

NO! Grime is quite clear that Eddie was trained to alert to blood.

In the absence of a body the whole rationale of deploying a cadaver dog is to look for blood so that it may be analysed.

In the Attracta Harron case, Eddie found blood that cracked the case and put Ms Harron's murderer behind bars.

[Redblossom]

 

Don't forget there were eight other dogs involved in the search, months before Grime turned up. Can't remember now, how many dog hairs were found in 5A, along with the cigarette ash, from GNR chaps.

Where did you read that?

Read what?

I'm pretty sure the cigarette ash is mentioned here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9226205/Madeleine-McCann-unanswered-questions.html

Thanks, it is mentioned there, but I will take that with a pinch of salt as in the same paragraph the writer of that article misleads the reader as regards contamination of the flat by dozens being allowed by the police, when its a fact this happened before police arrived.




 
British detectives have expressed dismay over flaws in the Portuguese police’s investigation, in which dozens of people were allowed to trample over the crime scene and evidence was found to be contaminated with cigarette ash.

[AnneGuedes]

Someone who has an experience of cadaver scent knows that dried blood doesn't smell the same.

Do you have a source for that assertion or is it just an opinion?

Not an opinion, just my experience. I've stayed in a flat where somebody died and, though now corpses receive very quickly a special treatment, I smelt death once in a while but for months. In my flat, where I've  been living for ages and where nobody died yet, where spots of blood have dried here and there before being cleaned (cleaning doesn't trick Keela), I've never smelt death.

[Mrs. B]

Don't think you can blame the McCanns or their friends for trampling the crime scene with dogs nor do I think they were spreading finger print powder all over the apartment.

"Initially the search began for latent shoe-prints it being verified that dozens existed on the floor, in the various rooms of the apartment, which invalidated the attempt of identifying those of the perpetrator. Also, innumerable tracks [footprints] that were taken to be canine in origin mixed with red- and white-coloured chemical products, as used to see fingerprints, and an enormous quantity of hairs probably of animal (dog) origin that made it difficult to find possible traces, especially in the bedroom of two single beds and two children's cots from
where the minor disappeared, and next to the aluminium window/door leading from inside the living room to the exterior area behind the apartment."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

[Redblossom]

Don't think you can blame the McCanns or their friends for trampling the crime scene with dogs nor do I think they were spreading finger print powder all over the apartment.

I wasn't aware anyone was.

[Mrs. B]

Someone who has an experience of cadaver scent knows that dried blood doesn't smell the same.

Do you have a source for that assertion or is it just an opinion?

Not an opinion, just my experience. I've stayed in a flat where somebody died and, though now corpses receive very quickly a special treatment, I smelt death once in a while but for months. In my flat, where I've  been living for ages and where nobody died yet, where spots of blood have dried here and there before being cleaned (cleaning doesn't trick Keela), I've never smelt death.

Yes, that may be, but you are not a CSI dog nor a Cadaver dog I'm sure. A dog's sense of smell is very different from that of humans.

[Tim Invictus]

see how stupid it is when people start placing large bets just on an opinion.

I didn't place any bet stupid nor did I ever suggest any of the friends were involved. The fact I can prove I wasn't in Portugal makes your opinion wrong but you cannot prove my opinion is wrong can you?

Why are the McCann Fan Club so hostile? People are entitled to express their opinions and many people do find the McCann's  untrustworthy especially with how they have handled the money good people have given to help the search for Madeliene. I don't think anyone who gave money expected that to be used to pay Kate and Gerry's mortgage!

The McCannettes remind me of the Bamberettes!

I note that you as a mod have used the epithet 'stupid' which I shall be pleased to use in future.

Feel free to use the epithet stupid when appropriate. By appropriate I suggest the point/post you are addressing should be blatantly stupid and at least bordering on the offensive. Most of Officeboy's posts stand as good examples!

[AnneGuedes]

IMO it's to do with the amount of time spent searching   I watched a TV prog on sniffer dogs at Airports a while back where a dog had alerted to drugs in a holdall, which were subsequently discovered in there.    The dog handler said how pleased she was with the dog, especially as she (the dog) had alerted very quickly - whereas sometimes she could take up to 15 mins 'inspecting' an item before deciding to alert or not.

I also wonder if Eddie had been made to spend the same amount of time on the other cars, instead of only a quarter of the time that he was made to spend on the Renault - then would he have alerted to some of those cars?   We shall never know.

The more scents mixed on a determined item, the more time for the dog to discriminate.
I do rely on the dog's operation because it was supervised by Mr Harrison who is a top guy in the UK. I really can't and will not believe that he and Mr Grime could have been corrupted.

[Mrs. B]

I wasn't aware that either Martin Grime or Harrison had ever categorically stated that there had been a cadaver in 5A, if so, I must have missed it. But I'll happily stand corrected if there are any reliable sources for this having happened.

[AnneGuedes]

Someone who has an experience of cadaver scent knows that dried blood doesn't smell the same.

Do you have a source for that assertion or is it just an opinion?

Not an opinion, just my experience. I've stayed in a flat where somebody died and, though now corpses receive very quickly a special treatment, I smelt death once in a while but for months. In my flat, where I've  been living for ages and where nobody died yet, where spots of blood have dried here and there before being cleaned (cleaning doesn't trick Keela), I've never smelt death.

Yes, that may be, but you are not a CSI dog nor a Cadaver dog I'm sure. A dog's sense of smell is very different from that of humans.

Oh you're sure I'm not a CSI nor an HRD !
Humans have much less receptors, but whoever smelt cadaver once always will detect it, in "human" quantity.

[DCI]

I can never understand why the PJ refused the offer of the dogs earlier 

[AnneGuedes]

I wasn't aware that either Martin Grime or Harrison had ever categorically stated that there had been a cadaver in 5A, if so, I must have missed it. But I'll happily stand corrected if there are any reliable sources for this having happened.

I never ever said they stated this ! Neither categorically nor vaguely !
I was answering Benice's post, about not enough time given to the dog to inspect the other cars. I'm confident that the operation was correctly done.

[AnneGuedes]

I can never understand why the PJ refused the offer of the dogs earlier 

When please, DCI ?

[DCI]

I can never understand why the PJ refused the offer of the dogs earlier 

When please, DCI ?

May 2007, Anne.

[ferryman]

I wasn't aware that either Martin Grime or Harrison had ever categorically stated that there had been a cadaver in 5A, if so, I must have missed it. But I'll happily stand corrected if there are any reliable sources for this having happened.

There is one place where Grime expresses an opinion (that I don't think he had any business expressing) that Eddie might be alerting to a cadaver scent.

Harrison emphatically not.