Author Topic: The 'Hate' Question.  (Read 36187 times)

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Offline Mo Stache

Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #135 on: May 16, 2013, 10:17:21 AM »
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BIBLE.htm

4488  Dispatches 25-26 June 2008 re: photocopies of KMH diary and their destruction
17 Process Vol XVII Page 4488
17_VOLUME_XVIIa_Page_4488
 
Conclusion 26-06-2008

(Presents invoice)

The photocopies of the 'diary' do not contain any material of interest to the ongoing investigation, but relate to the personal and inviolable personal experiences of any person.

Accordingly I order the diary's respective destruction.

Portimao

2008-06-27

Pedro Frias
Criminal Instruction Judge

There shouldn't have been any copies of that diary left in the possession of the PJ as Judge Frias ordered them destroyed. Still, a Portuguese translation of them made it to the Portuguese press & was then sold on to News International.
Does that mean that Mr Amaral would also have been obliged to destroy his copy of the diary entries?

Mr. Amaral should never have had a copy of that diary at any point in time in his private possession. The diary was in the hands of the PJ & was their responsibility.
Which also raises the issue of other police file material he had in his possession.

Offline Mrs. B

Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #136 on: May 16, 2013, 10:23:51 AM »
He shouldn't have had ANY material from the police files once he was removed from the investigation & certainly not after he was no longer employed by the PJ.

AnneGuedes

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Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #137 on: May 16, 2013, 10:39:22 AM »

Does that mean that Mr Amaral would also have been obliged to destroy his copy of the diary entries?
Why would he have a private copy of an uninteresting document ?
To use it in the research of or in the writing of his book on the case. Apparently the PJ, Mr Amaral and the journalist didn't find it "uninteresting" and they actually saw it as some sort of evidence of wrong doing on Kate McCann's part.
Mo Stache "The photocopies of the 'diary' do not contain any material of interest to the ongoing investigation"... Have you found any reference to it in Mr Amaral's book ? If not, it's speculation he kept it, against the judge's (sane) decision.

Offline Mo Stache

Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #138 on: May 16, 2013, 10:47:45 AM »
2 October 2007 Mr Amaral resigns from the police.

24 July 2008 – He publishes an account of the investigation into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance, titled: A Verdade da Mentira (‘Maddie: The Truth About A Lie’).

4 August 2008 - McCann PF Files: This information belongs to the Ministerio Publico in Portimao, Portugal. It was released to the public on 4 August 2008 in accordance with Portuguese Law.

 

Offline Mo Stache

Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #139 on: May 16, 2013, 10:49:25 AM »

Does that mean that Mr Amaral would also have been obliged to destroy his copy of the diary entries?
Why would he have a private copy of an uninteresting document ?
To use it in the research of or in the writing of his book on the case. Apparently the PJ, Mr Amaral and the journalist didn't find it "uninteresting" and they actually saw it as some sort of evidence of wrong doing on Kate McCann's part.
Mo Stache "The photocopies of the 'diary' do not contain any material of interest to the ongoing investigation"... Have you found any reference to it in Mr Amaral's book ? If not, it's speculation he kept it, against the judge's (sane) decision.
If the diary did not contain any material of interest why did the police leak it to the journalists?

Offline Carana

Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #140 on: May 16, 2013, 10:52:27 AM »
Why wasn't it investigated ? Before that it's just gossip that finally turns the PJ into a scapegoat. Could be counterproductive.

Better question Anne, who from the PJ, gave/sold it to the journo? Now that should be investgated.

Its a bit like those files supposedly left open on a PJ desk, that another journo got private information from, and rang all the numbers from phone records.
I agree that should be investigated, DCI.
I find it fine the request (impressive lawyers !) to not include in the DVD the files on sexual predators that were exonerated after all (I only lament those files weren't sent to the PJ when Joana disappeared), but it seems to me this diary issue, inter alia, deserve to be cleared up, even if money seems to have resolved the issue.

Interesting comment, Anne. Are you not entirely convinced that she was murdered by her family?

The PJ could have gone through Europol to check on any known or suspected foreign sex offenders in the area. Did the PJ check their own criminal records?

Offline Mrs. B

Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #141 on: May 16, 2013, 11:20:34 AM »

Does that mean that Mr Amaral would also have been obliged to destroy his copy of the diary entries?
Why would he have a private copy of an uninteresting document ?
To use it in the research of or in the writing of his book on the case. Apparently the PJ, Mr Amaral and the journalist didn't find it "uninteresting" and they actually saw it as some sort of evidence of wrong doing on Kate McCann's part.

Not that "uninteresting" it seems. Transcript from Amaral's video "documentary"

37.42 – Kate McCann’s diary, which was accessed by the investigation, is clear about the importance of such political support. Gordon Brown phones the couple several times, as the diary shows on the 23rd of May.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/04/maddie-truth-of-lie-documentary.html

Such perfect recall is to be admired. He remembers exact DATE when a specific entry was made in the diary. That's quite remarkable if you don't have a copy of it as reference.

Offline Mo Stache

Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #142 on: May 16, 2013, 11:31:26 AM »

Does that mean that Mr Amaral would also have been obliged to destroy his copy of the diary entries?
Why would he have a private copy of an uninteresting document ?
To use it in the research of or in the writing of his book on the case. Apparently the PJ, Mr Amaral and the journalist didn't find it "uninteresting" and they actually saw it as some sort of evidence of wrong doing on Kate McCann's part.

Not that "uninteresting" it seems. Transcript from Amaral's video "documentary"

37.42 – Kate McCann’s diary, which was accessed by the investigation, is clear about the importance of such political support. Gordon Brown phones the couple several times, as the diary shows on the 23rd of May.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/04/maddie-truth-of-lie-documentary.html

Such perfect recall is to be admired. He remembers exact DATE when a specific entry was made in the diary. That's quite remarkable if you don't have a copy of it as reference.
Yes. Also mentioned here: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id408.html
Mr Amaral - "There is an important aspect and that is the diary of Mrs Kate McCann."

AnneGuedes

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Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #143 on: May 16, 2013, 04:23:02 PM »
(I only lament those files weren't sent to the PJ when Joana disappeared), but it seems to me this diary issue, inter alia, deserve to be cleared up, even if money seems to have resolved the issue.

Interesting comment, Anne. Are you not entirely convinced that she was murdered by her family?


The PJ could have gone through Europol to check on any known or suspected foreign sex offenders in the area. Did the PJ check their own criminal records?
Carana, the only thing I know about this case is that it was related by some to the Madeleine one, the common point being that the police, in both cases, suspected the parents to be involved in the disappearance.
I found it revealing, in an EU point of view vs a nationalist one, that the UK sends to Portugal a list of potentially dangerous British citizens only when a child of the same nationality is missing.
But you could answer me that it doesn't make any difference since no child was abducted (by a stranger) since Madeleine disappeared.

Offline DCI

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Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #144 on: May 16, 2013, 05:08:11 PM »
Why did Amaral say, there was a blackout curtain, on the window, when there wasn't?
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Offline Carana

Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #145 on: May 16, 2013, 05:10:22 PM »
(I only lament those files weren't sent to the PJ when Joana disappeared), but it seems to me this diary issue, inter alia, deserve to be cleared up, even if money seems to have resolved the issue.

Interesting comment, Anne. Are you not entirely convinced that she was murdered by her family?


The PJ could have gone through Europol to check on any known or suspected foreign sex offenders in the area. Did the PJ check their own criminal records?
Carana, the only thing I know about this case is that it was related by some to the Madeleine one, the common point being that the police, in both cases, suspected the parents to be involved in the disappearance.
I found it revealing, in an EU point of view vs a nationalist one, that the UK sends to Portugal a list of potentially dangerous British citizens only when a child of the same nationality is missing.
But you could answer me that it doesn't make any difference since no child was abducted (by a stranger) since Madeleine disappeared.

Perhaps we're at cross-purposes.

Not all paedophiles are from the UK, Anne. ;)

The LP offered their help because it was indeed a UK citizen who had disappeared, as no doubt the authorities in many other countries would have done if one of their own citizens had been missing in a foreign country.

However, Joana was a Portuguese citizen, as we know. The PJ could have appealed to Europol for assistance, but I haven't found anything to suggest that they had, possibly because they didn't have a description of a potential abductor with which to request concrete assistance, or possibly because they were convinced from an early stage that the family was involved.

It might have been different if someone had witnessed, and had been able to give an accurate description, of a suspicious person with an English / French / Spanish /German accent, or a car screetching off with identifiable licence plates, for example.


 


Offline Carana

Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #146 on: May 16, 2013, 05:19:49 PM »
(I only lament those files weren't sent to the PJ when Joana disappeared), but it seems to me this diary issue, inter alia, deserve to be cleared up, even if money seems to have resolved the issue.

Interesting comment, Anne. Are you not entirely convinced that she was murdered by her family?


The PJ could have gone through Europol to check on any known or suspected foreign sex offenders in the area. Did the PJ check their own criminal records?
Carana, the only thing I know about this case is that it was related by some to the Madeleine one, the common point being that the police, in both cases, suspected the parents to be involved in the disappearance.
I found it revealing, in an EU point of view vs a nationalist one, that the UK sends to Portugal a list of potentially dangerous British citizens only when a child of the same nationality is missing.
But you could answer me that it doesn't make any difference since no child was abducted (by a stranger) since Madeleine disappeared.

Rereading, perhaps I can understand a point, if you mean that countries should automatically share info about potentially dangerous citizens who could be in another country.

As far as I know, there is no Europe-wide sharing mechanism for the moment. I already posted what I'd found on that a few weeks ago. Some countries are only just in the process of thinking of a sex offender register at national level.

And any such system would have to be kept securely away from fans fluttering confidential documents out of windows.

AnneGuedes

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Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #147 on: May 16, 2013, 05:23:20 PM »


Not all paedophiles are from the UK, Anne. ;)

The LP offered their help because it was indeed a UK citizen who had disappeared, as no doubt the authorities in many other countries would have done if one of their own citizens had been missing in a foreign country.

However, Joana was a Portuguese citizen, as we know. The PJ could have appealed to Europol for assistance, but I haven't found anything to suggest that they had, possibly because they didn't have a description of a potential abductor with which to request concrete assistance, or possibly because they were convinced from an early stage that the family was involved.

It might have been different if someone had witnessed, and had been able to give an accurate description, of a suspicious person with an English / French / Spanish /German accent, or a car screetching off with identifiable licence plates, for example.
Sure, Carana, paedophiles aren't all the UK, even if the Algarve is mainly colonised by UK citizens.
Again I vaguely heard about the Joana Case because of Madeleine McCann and Gonçalo Amaral. I probably would have know if an abductor had been described.
Also Jane T said the carrier didn't look like a tourist.

Offline DCI

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Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #148 on: May 16, 2013, 05:28:47 PM »

Does that mean that Mr Amaral would also have been obliged to destroy his copy of the diary entries?
Why would he have a private copy of an uninteresting document ?
To use it in the research of or in the writing of his book on the case. Apparently the PJ, Mr Amaral and the journalist didn't find it "uninteresting" and they actually saw it as some sort of evidence of wrong doing on Kate McCann's part.
Mo Stache "The photocopies of the 'diary' do not contain any material of interest to the ongoing investigation"... Have you found any reference to it in Mr Amaral's book ? If not, it's speculation he kept it, against the judge's (sane) decision.

Amaral says,
If Kate's journal
is to be believed, the twins suffered from problems of that nature during the days following their sister's disappearance.

So, he kept it against the judge's decision.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 05:56:02 PM by DCI »
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AnneGuedes

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Re: The 'Hate' Question.
« Reply #149 on: May 16, 2013, 05:31:16 PM »

Rereading, perhaps I can understand a point, if you mean that countries should automatically share info about potentially dangerous citizens who could be in another country.

As far as I know, there is no Europe-wide sharing mechanism for the moment. I already posted what I'd found on that a few weeks ago. Some countries are only just in the process of thinking of a sex offender register at national level.

And any such system would have to be kept securely away from fans fluttering confidential documents out of windows.
Yes that was the point I tried to mean. I remember the document you sent. And, yes, the guarantee of this intelligence's confidentiality might be the main factor explaining there's no sharing at European level, each State having to protect its citizens, whatever they did.