Police seeking couple who entered McCann Apt to comfort crying Madeleine

[registrar]

NB to the above

The Schengen treaty stipulates that any country signing up to it allows it's citizens to travel within
the Schengen territory without passport controls.

The UK is not signatory to this treaty.

In other words if a person travels from say France to the UK or vice versa - they need to show their passport.

If however a person travels from Portugal to Spain (two signatory countries) they do not have to show their passport.

But the Schengen treaty also allows each participant nation to impose temporary border controls of its own volition in response to temporary emergencies

true - but let's put you in the driving seat ferryman

You are head of the GNR the night of the disappearance

The call comes through - little girl in Luz went missing

Would you man all crossing points into Spain and imposed 'emergency' passport controls

Thus severly impeding traffic and commerce?

No, I don't think you would

Given the probability that the child could be found at any moment playing under a table near the Ocean Club

Reality - not flights of fancy please

I suspect a decision would need to be taken at a more senior level than GNR.  And clearly a judgment would have to be made about when was the right time to impose border control.

But given there is always the option of lifting it immediately upon a resolution of the crisis (finding Madeleine, alive or dead), I would think a swift decision could be reached, and no blame attached in the event of a positive outcome ...

Laudable philosophical concept

yet hardly practical

As head of the GNR or any other agency

You would NOT have made that call

Clear and present danger was NOT apparent at that time

And you have your pension to think about

That's the stark face of realpolitik

[Carana]

If, as I understand to be the case, there are many ways of crossing over the border from Portugal to Spain - including little country roads - I don't actually find it realistic to expect the authorities to immediately man every single crossing within a 3-hour drive, let alone to continue to do so for days.

Likely or not, she could have been driven close to a border and been taken into a little marina or private beach in Spain by boat, for example.

Or, she could have been driven up north and been moved across from there, either soon after or possibly days later.

The logistics of the geography and open borders would seem to make instant comprehensive border alerts unlikely in this kind of situation.

[Benice]

The fact that he wasn't seen by people who knew him isn't proof that he wasn't there.   The fact that 7 people in total said they saw him that night is far more relevant   IMO

Please provide a link to the 4 others, Benice.

My apols Anne  - it was 6 in total Anne. 

Apart from Fiona Payne there was:-

Jayne Jensen
A British Barrister who corroberated Mrs. Jenson's sighting.
Charlotte Pennington
Rachel Oldfield
Russell O'Brien.

[AnneGuedes]

I really don't think the borders would be reactivated in the proven case of an abducted child by strangers. The European alarm would be deployed over Europe, that's all and that's good.
As Madeleine was no baby, can you imagine her drugged for months, years ? I can't.

[Carana]

I really don't think the borders would be reactivated in the proven case of an abducted child by strangers. The European alarm would be deployed over Europe, that's all and that's good.
As Madeleine was no baby, can you imagine her drugged for months, years ? I can't.

Good intentions and even legislation aren't necessarily followed by the availability of practical (and practised) means of implementation.

Nonetheless, the concept is moving forward.

[AnneGuedes]

The fact that he wasn't seen by people who knew him isn't proof that he wasn't there.   The fact that 7 people in total said they saw him that night is far more relevant   IMO

Please provide a link to the 4 others, Benice.

My apols Anne  - it was 6 in total Anne. 

Apart from Fiona Payne there was:-

Jayne Jensen
A British Barrister who corroberated Mrs. Jenson's sighting.
Charlotte Pennington
Rachel Oldfield
Russell O'Brien.

Who is Jayne Jensen (not in the files), the lady who said she had dinner at the Tapas on the 3rd ? Why does she have to be corroborated ?
I can't find such a "sighting" in Miss Pennington's statement (Robert M. was the interpret).
Do you by chance know how many persons denied Robert M. was there ?

[DCI]

The fact that he wasn't seen by people who knew him isn't proof that he wasn't there.   The fact that 7 people in total said they saw him that night is far more relevant   IMO

Please provide a link to the 4 others, Benice.

My apols Anne  - it was 6 in total Anne. 

Apart from Fiona Payne there was:-

Jayne Jensen
A British Barrister who corroberated Mrs. Jenson's sighting.
Charlotte Pennington
Rachel Oldfield
Russell O'Brien.

Who is Jayne Jensen (not in the files), the lady who said she had dinner at the Tapas on the 3rd ? Why does she have to be corroborated ?
I can't find such a "sighting" in Miss Pennington's statement (Robert M. was the interpret).
Do you by chance know how many persons denied Robert M. was there ?

List of Murat translations, Anne. I think all are staff?

Witness statement
Charlotte Elizabeth Anne Pennington
Date/Time: 2007/05/07 14H30
Childcare Worker
Irish Citizen
Translator Robert Murat

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm
Kirsty Louise Maryan

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 14H30
Child Educator
British (translated by Robert Murat)
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KIRSTY-MARYAN.htm
 
 
Pauline Frances McCann

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 18H35
Infant Educator
British (Translator: Robert Murat)
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAULINE-MCCANN.htm
 
Catriona Treasa Sisile Baker
Childcare Worker
Time/Date: 18H36 2007/05/06
British Citizen
Translated by Robert Murat
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CATRIONA-TREASA.htm
 
 
Stacey Portz
(statement translated by Robert Murat)
Creche Worker
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STACY-POTZ.htm
 
 
Susan Bernadette Owen

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 19H40
Infant Educator (Translator: Robert Murat)

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUSAN-OWEN.htm

Jayne Jensen and Anne Wiltshire, mentioned here.

05-CARTAS ROGATORIAS UK  Pages 30 to 32

Statement by: Neil Berry

At about 16.00 we were at the swimming pool bar within the complex. It was at this time that we had a few drinks with Raj Balu, Jayne Jensen and Anne Wiltshire, as I testified in my statement of 8th January 2008. My family returned to the apartment at about 17.000 and the four of us remained at the pool bar. I must have stayed there for another half an hour before joining my family in the apartment. When I left Jensen and Wiltshire remained at the bar.

[Redblossom]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/20/madeleine-mccann-s-parents-get-fresh-hope-as-operation-grange-ids-20.html

I cant keep up

[AnneGuedes]

List of Murat translations, Anne. I think all are staff?

Witness statement
Charlotte Elizabeth Anne Pennington
Date/Time: 2007/05/07 14H30
Childcare Worker
Irish Citizen
Translator Robert Murat

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm
Kirsty Louise Maryan

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 14H30
Child Educator
British (translated by Robert Murat)
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KIRSTY-MARYAN.htm
 
 
Pauline Frances McCann

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 18H35
Infant Educator
British (Translator: Robert Murat)
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAULINE-MCCANN.htm
 
Catriona Treasa Sisile Baker
Childcare Worker
Time/Date: 18H36 2007/05/06
British Citizen
Translated by Robert Murat
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CATRIONA-TREASA.htm
 
 
Stacey Portz
(statement translated by Robert Murat)
Creche Worker
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STACY-POTZ.htm
 
 
Susan Bernadette Owen

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 19H40
Infant Educator (Translator: Robert Murat)

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUSAN-OWEN.htm

Jayne Jensen and Anne Wiltshire, mentioned here.

05-CARTAS ROGATORIAS UK  Pages 30 to 32

Statement by: Neil Berry

At about 16.00 we were at the swimming pool bar within the complex. It was at this time that we had a few drinks with Raj Balu, Jayne Jensen and Anne Wiltshire, as I testified in my statement of 8th January 2008. My family returned to the apartment at about 17.000 and the four of us remained at the pool bar. I must have stayed there for another half an hour before joining my family in the apartment. When I left Jensen and Wiltshire remained at the bar.

[Name removed] and AW are no staff at all. They pretended to have had dinner at the Tapas, but the Restaurant book shows it's not true.
Who identified Robert M. as present near the flat on the 3rd of May night, apart from the TP3 ?

[AnneGuedes]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/20/madeleine-mccann-s-parents-get-fresh-hope-as-operation-grange-ids-20.html

I cant keep up

Big dilemma : if you keep up, you're a fairy tale believer, if you don't keep up, you're a heartless materialist. Tough life.

[icabodcrane]

Getting back to the original thread topic,  I've been wondering  ...  we have now been made aware that there were possibly, two occasions when  Madeleine cried   ... one when Mrs Fenn heard her becoming increasingly distressed for an hour and a quarter,  and then again, the following night,  when the mystery couple went into the apartment to  'soothe'  her

How can that be  ?

If the tapas group have been honest about their checking regime then barely 10 minutes could ever have passed without one or other of them, on their trips back and fore,   being close enough to the McCann apartment to have  heard  Madeleine crying

[AnneGuedes]

Getting back to the original thread topic,  I've been wondering  ...  we have now been made aware that there were possibly, two occasions when  Madeleine cried   ... one when Mrs Fenn heard her becoming increasingly distressed for an hour and a quarter,  and then again, the following night,  when the mystery couple went into the apartment to  'soothe'  her

How can that be  ?

If the tapas group have been honest about their checking regime then barely 10 minutes could ever have passed without one or other of them, on their trips back and fore,   being close enough to the McCann apartment to have  heard  Madeleine crying

You're right, Icabodcrane, any parent checking a child on the north face of the G5 would have heard a crying. It confirms my feeling they checked before meal was served because they were not sure the kids were deeply sleeping. Once asleep, from 21:30 on, what could happen ? Mr or Mrs Oldfield neither went to check on their child at 10 or asked Mrs McCann to do it.

[Lace]

SY have not mentioned anything about two people entering apartment 5a on the 2nd May to comfort Madeleine.

I would have thought that if someone had given a statement about seeing this couple entering 5a on the evening before Madeleine was abducted,   we would have heard about it by now.

I am not taking this article seriously until SY themselves report it.

[Benice]

SY have not mentioned anything about two people entering apartment 5a on the 2nd May to comfort Madeleine.

I would have thought that if someone had given a statement about seeing this couple entering 5a on the evening before Madeleine was abducted,   we would have heard about it by now.

I am not taking this article seriously until SY themselves report it.

Agree.  Surely if this couple were that concerned they would go to Reception and report it.  I don't know of anyone who would dream of going into a stranger's apartment to soothe a crying child.

[John]

Surely if this couple were that concerned they would go to Reception and report it.  I don't know of anyone who would dream of going into a stranger's apartment to soothe a crying child.

I agree with that Benice.  You would go and report it to one of the reception areas immediately.  Entering someone else's apartment would simply be asking for trouble.