Author Topic: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.  (Read 302750 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1350 on: January 13, 2020, 04:10:03 PM »
They tried to convince the Portuguese authorities but weren't successful.

You don't know whether the police spoke to PF early in the investigation or not, so you don't know if your criticisms are founded or not.

PF's wit stat of 20th Aug makes no mention of any previous contact with the authorities.  It reads as though she is providing a statement for the first time. 

If she provided a statement before 20th Aug where is it?  And if she did provide something earlier then what was the reason for taking another statement on 20th Aug? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1351 on: January 13, 2020, 04:19:19 PM »
Considering they knocked on circa 1000 doors pretty early on, yeh, quite sure they spoke to Mrs. Fenn (RIP), with her being, you know, upstairs and all that. Even Brietta herself, the denizen of PJ castigators, could afford them that much.


But where's the evidence PF was spoken with earlier than her 20th Aug wit stat? 

According to PF's niece, CAT, she was accompanied by her husband on 3rd May but I can't find any evidence anyone has ever taken a wit stat from Christopher Tranmer? 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 04:39:28 PM by Eleanor »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline The General

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1352 on: January 13, 2020, 05:08:50 PM »
PF's wit stat of 20th Aug makes no mention of any previous contact with the authorities.  It reads as though she is providing a statement for the first time. 

If she provided a statement before 20th Aug where is it?  And if she did provide something earlier then what was the reason for taking another statement on 20th Aug?
There's witness statements and then there's a brief conversation with a copper over a cup of tea, recorded in a notebook.
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1353 on: January 13, 2020, 05:57:29 PM »
PF's wit stat of 20th Aug makes no mention of any previous contact with the authorities.  It reads as though she is providing a statement for the first time. 

If she provided a statement before 20th Aug where is it?  And if she did provide something earlier then what was the reason for taking another statement on 20th Aug?

You still don't know if she was spoken to earlier and said nothing. It may have taken her a while to realise that what she heard on Tuesday was relevant. Nobody knows why she decided to make a statement when she did.
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1354 on: January 13, 2020, 06:38:03 PM »

'NEGATIVE AND HURTFUL' Madeleine McCann’s parents slam ‘heartless’ ex-cop for saying Maddie will never be found as they ‘still have hope’


THE parents of Madeleine McCann have slammed a “heartless” ex-cop for saying the missing tot will never been found.

Kate and Gerry McCann said they “still have hope” Maddie will be “found alive” 12 years on from her disappearance in Portugal.

The parents slammed self-styled top crime investigator Mark Williams-Thomas for trying to “cash in” on Maddie’s fate and said his “hurtful” remarks in his new book undermined the committed and ongoing work by cops to find her.

Mr Williams-Thomas believes Maddie fell victim to an opportunistic criminal and mystery has not been solved because a crucial CCTV camera at the Portuguese holiday resort she was snatched from was turned off.

He states: “The sad reality is, this far on, the likelihood of Madeleine being alive now is incredibly slim. Unfortunately, in almost every case of stranger abduction, within the space of 24 hours the child is dead.”

The authors' remarks come just a few weeks after the McCann’s of Rothley. Leics, vowed to carry on searching for their daughter.

Kate and Gerry posted a website message on their 13th Christmas without her: “Nothing has changed…we love her, we miss her, we hope as always. The search for Madeleine goes on with unwavering commitment.”

A family source said: “Now someone who has absolutely no idea what happened to Madeleine is saying she’ll never be found. "This is neither helpful to the Scotland Yard search not respectful to Kate and Gerry. It is heartless.

“They are starting their New Year with hope and positivity and they don't want people pedalling negative and hurtful comments simply to cash in on book sales.

“It undermines work the police are doing for which Kate and Gerry remain greatly encouraged by and are extremely grateful for.

“They also say that until a body is found they refuse to give up searching."

Heart doctor Gerry and former GP Kate, both 51, cling onto hope that Maddie - who would now be 16 - could still be alive and being held against her will.

Three-year-old Maddie vanished from a holiday flat in The Algarve’s Praia da Luz on May 2007.

She had been left sleeping along with her younger twin siblings while her parents were dining in a nearby tapas bar with pals.

So far nearly £12million of taxpayers' money has been spent on the painstaking hunt to find her. The couple’s latest round of funding runs out at the end of March.

Mr Williams-Thomas, 49, who was worked on major missing persons cases but never Maddie’s, is convinced her case is “unsolvable”.

In his new book Hunting Killers, the author says: "The abduction of Madeleine McCann is one I’d put into the unsolvable category.

"I believe Madeleine was the victim of an opportunistic criminal whose act was random – she wandered out of the apartment and into the path of this person.

“The case hasn’t been solved simply because a crucial CCTV camera was turned off, meaning that whoever took Madeleine was not identifiable at the scene.”

In fact former Portuguese police chief Gonzalo Amaral, who led the original investigation onto Maddie’s disappearance, previously said he believed the suspect was caught on film before it was wiped.

Mr Amaral - who won a bitter and long fought libel battle against Kate and Gerry which they are still trying to appeal in the European Court of Human Rights - reportedly said: “I believe that the person seen carrying a child in his arms was captured on film from that very camera.

“I asked my officers to gather all the CCTV footage in Luz but, by the time they got to this hotel, the film from this camera had been wiped over. It was a mistake and I will always regret it.

“I do feel Madeleine was let down.”

British officers working with counterparts in Portugal said Apartment 5A at the Ocean Club from where the youngster went missing was the “worst preserved” crime scene ever.

A CCTV camera in the complex was not working. Another camera covering the road from the resort was allegedly never examined.

But the McCann's were also reportedly shown some footage taken from public sites around the area and photos, including a number of known sex offenders.

Maddie’s abduction - the world's most famous missing child case - was highlighted last year in a controversial Netflix documentary which her parents refused to co-operate with.

Mr Williams-Thomas, who at times speaks out on breakfast TV about latest Maddie development, said he wants to see an end to the case - ideally the girl returned home to her family or "some kind of resolution in terms of someone being convicted for the offence.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/10728547/madeleine-mccanns-parents-slam-heartless-ex-cop/
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Brietta

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1355 on: January 13, 2020, 07:30:51 PM »
Considering they knocked on circa 1000 doors pretty early on, yeh, quite sure they spoke to Mrs. Fenn (RIP), with her being, you know, upstairs and all that. Even Brietta herself, the denizen of PJ castigators, could afford them that much.

I have absolutely no idea what your reference to me might mean but the fact no-one bothered to climb the stairs to contact Mr and Mrs Moyes would indicate that any notion of start at the centre and work out appeared to be foreign to the PJ investigators.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1356 on: January 14, 2020, 12:35:36 PM »
There's witness statements and then there's a brief conversation with a copper over a cup of tea, recorded in a notebook.

Only problem is PF and Portuguese coppers don't talk the same lingo so how did they manage a conversation over a cuppa? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1357 on: January 14, 2020, 12:42:25 PM »
You still don't know if she was spoken to earlier and said nothing. It may have taken her a while to realise that what she heard on Tuesday was relevant. Nobody knows why she decided to make a statement when she did.

I would suggest she made a statement on 20th August as she was asked to do so by PJ.  Better late than never I guess.  Her statement makes clear that despite the fact she was living in Portugal she had no knowledge of the Portuguese language in its written or oral form, so the idea a random member of PJ happened by and took a mini statement doesn't seem to stack up.  Plus had she made an earlier statement I would have expected to see some reference to this in the statement dated 20th Aug.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1358 on: January 14, 2020, 12:54:00 PM »
'NEGATIVE AND HURTFUL' Madeleine McCann’s parents slam ‘heartless’ ex-cop for saying Maddie will never be found as they ‘still have hope’


THE parents of Madeleine McCann have slammed a “heartless” ex-cop for saying the missing tot will never been found.

Kate and Gerry McCann said they “still have hope” Maddie will be “found alive” 12 years on from her disappearance in Portugal.

The parents slammed self-styled top crime investigator Mark Williams-Thomas for trying to “cash in” on Maddie’s fate and said his “hurtful” remarks in his new book undermined the committed and ongoing work by cops to find her.

Mr Williams-Thomas believes Maddie fell victim to an opportunistic criminal and mystery has not been solved because a crucial CCTV camera at the Portuguese holiday resort she was snatched from was turned off.

He states: “The sad reality is, this far on, the likelihood of Madeleine being alive now is incredibly slim. Unfortunately, in almost every case of stranger abduction, within the space of 24 hours the child is dead.”

The authors' remarks come just a few weeks after the McCann’s of Rothley. Leics, vowed to carry on searching for their daughter.

Kate and Gerry posted a website message on their 13th Christmas without her: “Nothing has changed…we love her, we miss her, we hope as always. The search for Madeleine goes on with unwavering commitment.”

A family source said: “Now someone who has absolutely no idea what happened to Madeleine is saying she’ll never be found. "This is neither helpful to the Scotland Yard search not respectful to Kate and Gerry. It is heartless.

“They are starting their New Year with hope and positivity and they don't want people pedalling negative and hurtful comments simply to cash in on book sales.

“It undermines work the police are doing for which Kate and Gerry remain greatly encouraged by and are extremely grateful for.

“They also say that until a body is found they refuse to give up searching."

Heart doctor Gerry and former GP Kate, both 51, cling onto hope that Maddie - who would now be 16 - could still be alive and being held against her will.

Three-year-old Maddie vanished from a holiday flat in The Algarve’s Praia da Luz on May 2007.

She had been left sleeping along with her younger twin siblings while her parents were dining in a nearby tapas bar with pals.

So far nearly £12million of taxpayers' money has been spent on the painstaking hunt to find her. The couple’s latest round of funding runs out at the end of March.

Mr Williams-Thomas, 49, who was worked on major missing persons cases but never Maddie’s, is convinced her case is “unsolvable”.

In his new book Hunting Killers, the author says: "The abduction of Madeleine McCann is one I’d put into the unsolvable category.

"I believe Madeleine was the victim of an opportunistic criminal whose act was random – she wandered out of the apartment and into the path of this person.

“The case hasn’t been solved simply because a crucial CCTV camera was turned off, meaning that whoever took Madeleine was not identifiable at the scene.”

In fact former Portuguese police chief Gonzalo Amaral, who led the original investigation onto Maddie’s disappearance, previously said he believed the suspect was caught on film before it was wiped.

Mr Amaral - who won a bitter and long fought libel battle against Kate and Gerry which they are still trying to appeal in the European Court of Human Rights - reportedly said: “I believe that the person seen carrying a child in his arms was captured on film from that very camera.

“I asked my officers to gather all the CCTV footage in Luz but, by the time they got to this hotel, the film from this camera had been wiped over. It was a mistake and I will always regret it.

“I do feel Madeleine was let down.”

British officers working with counterparts in Portugal said Apartment 5A at the Ocean Club from where the youngster went missing was the “worst preserved” crime scene ever.

A CCTV camera in the complex was not working. Another camera covering the road from the resort was allegedly never examined.

But the McCann's were also reportedly shown some footage taken from public sites around the area and photos, including a number of known sex offenders.

Maddie’s abduction - the world's most famous missing child case - was highlighted last year in a controversial Netflix documentary which her parents refused to co-operate with.

Mr Williams-Thomas, who at times speaks out on breakfast TV about latest Maddie development, said he wants to see an end to the case - ideally the girl returned home to her family or "some kind of resolution in terms of someone being convicted for the offence.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/10728547/madeleine-mccanns-parents-slam-heartless-ex-cop/

MWT involves himself in high profile cases eg MM and the murder of Jill Dando but I can't see why anyone would consider his opinions anymore valid than anyone who posts here?  These cases have one off features about them and therefore I don't see how MWT being a police officer many moons ago for about 12 years makes him an authority?  The same can be said for David James Smith who doesn't even have the police experience to draw upon. 

I think 'This Morning/Lorraine' might be better off having the likes of you and I  8(>(( ?>)()<
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 01:32:29 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1359 on: January 14, 2020, 02:14:39 PM »
I would suggest she made a statement on 20th August as she was asked to do so by PJ.  Better late than never I guess.  Her statement makes clear that despite the fact she was living in Portugal she had no knowledge of the Portuguese language in its written or oral form, so the idea a random member of PJ happened by and took a mini statement doesn't seem to stack up.  Plus had she made an earlier statement I would have expected to see some reference to this in the statement dated 20th Aug.

You can suggest anything you like, but you don't know why she came to make a statement. On 5th May six teams made up of PJ Officers and Ocean Club maintenance technicions visited 443 homes in the Club Cottages, Ocean Club Gardens, Waterside Village and Waterside Gardens. They asked people if they had any information and if the answer was yes, formal interviews were arranged. Therefore the police were able to communicate with non-Portuguese speakers.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EXTERNAL.htm

I don't know if they spoke to PF, but either way she doesn't seem to have offered any information if she was visited. She also made no effort to contact the PJ in PdL or elsewhere.
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Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1360 on: January 14, 2020, 02:17:49 PM »
Only problem is PF and Portuguese coppers don't talk the same lingo so how did they manage a conversation over a cuppa?

We have encountered a number of police officers and ambulance staff in Portugal, and they all spoke high quality English.
What's up, old man?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1361 on: January 14, 2020, 03:00:44 PM »
MWT involves himself in high profile cases eg MM and the murder of Jill Dando but I can't see why anyone would consider his opinions anymore valid than anyone who posts here?  These cases have one off features about them and therefore I don't see how MWT being a police officer many moons ago for about 12 years makes him an authority?  The same can be said for David James Smith who doesn't even have the police experience to draw upon. 

I think 'This Morning/Lorraine' might be better off having the likes of you and I  8(>(( ?>)()<

I absolutely agree on Mr Williams Thomas.  He is an opportunist, who incidentally retired as a police Constable going nowhere in The police force.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1362 on: January 14, 2020, 03:03:11 PM »
We have encountered a number of police officers and ambulance staff in Portugal, and they all spoke high quality English.

To name just two officers, Ricardo Paiva and Joao Carlos both spoke English. Interpreters weren't used because the PJ didn't speak English imo, they were used because they were professionals.
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Offline jassi

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1363 on: January 14, 2020, 03:32:05 PM »
I absolutely agree on Mr Williams Thomas. He is an opportunist, who incidentally retired as a police Constable going nowhere in The police force.

Indeed he is , and seems moderately successful, but hardly seems an expert on the Madeleine McCann case
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1364 on: January 14, 2020, 03:42:34 PM »
You can suggest anything you like, but you don't know why she came to make a statement. On 5th May six teams made up of PJ Officers and Ocean Club maintenance technicions visited 443 homes in the Club Cottages, Ocean Club Gardens, Waterside Village and Waterside Gardens. They asked people if they had any information and if the answer was yes, formal interviews were arranged. Therefore the police were able to communicate with non-Portuguese speakers.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EXTERNAL.htm

I don't know if they spoke to PF, but either way she doesn't seem to have offered any information if she was visited. She also made no effort to contact the PJ in PdL or elsewhere.

She made a wit stat on 20th Aug 2007 because she was asked to do so hence the statement repeatedly states "When questioned..." and "When asked..." 

The 443 homes under investigation all related to the tourist business "Ocean Club".  Mrs Fenn's residence was not part of OC tourist business.  It states:

Some of the residences, belonging to the establishment, were not checked because they were unoccupied and there was no key available to access them. These were individual residences, that did not have Ocean Club maintenance contracts;

And Mrs Fenn, as full-time resident and owner of her apartment, did not have an Ocean Club maintenance contract. 

The present inquiry was undertaken by a total of six teams composed of PJ officers and maintenance technicians of the Ocean Club;

PJ were able to communicate with English speaking guests as they were accompanied by maintenance technicians eg the likes of Silvia Batista who acted as translator on night of 3rd May.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?