Lies, lies and more dam llies...

[John]

Don't kid yourselves guys into thinking that SY has its best detectives on this case and that they are in possession of some striking new evidence because they aren't.  There is no way SY or any other police force will ever solve this case because there is simply no will to do so.  Sitting on their backsides in London will never achieve anything.  As with so many other abductees who have come in from the cold, they have done so through their own efforts, they were not detected by police or any other agencies who in most cases gave them up for dead long ago.

The Portuguese will not reopen this case which is their way of saying we haven't a baldy clue where to go from here.  I agree with them because the trail went cold 6 years ago.  There isn't a single person who has ever been shown to have had any involvement in Maddie's abduction.  All they have are dead end trails and suspects who are all entirely innocent of any involvement.

NSY is currently involved in a damage limitation exercise.  Release a few snippets of information to the baying wolves at Fleet Street and that will keep them happy for a while longer.  You only need to look at the stories which have hit the front pages over the last week relating to Maddie and you will realise that it is all supposition and speculation.  Keep the public in suspense and thinking that some magic breakthrough is just around the corner...it isn't!!  I can tell you now that SY has nothing of any consequence, they are as much in the dark as they were 6 years ago.  This situation will endure too for as long as the Portuguese continue to refuse to reopen the case.  Without Portuguese cooperation SY are helpless to do anything of any consequence in the case.

[Carana]

Don't kid yourselves guys into thinking that SY has its best detectives on this case and that they are in possession of some striking new evidence because they aren't.  There is no way SY or any other police force will ever solve this case because there is simply no will to do so.  Sitting on their backsides in London will never achieve anything.  As with so many other abductees who have come in from the cold, they have done so through their own efforts, they were not detected by police or any other agencies who in most cases gave them up for dead long ago.

The Portuguese will not reopen this case which is their way of saying we haven't a baldy clue where to go from here.  I agree with them because the trail went cold 6 years ago.  There isn't a single person who has ever been shown to have had any involvement in Maddie's abduction.  All they have are dead end trails and suspects who are all entirely innocent of any involvement.

NSY is currently involved in a damage limitation exercise.  Release a few snippets of information to the baying wolves at Fleet Street and that will keep them happy for a while longer.  You only need to look at the stories which have hit the front pages over the last week relating to Maddie and you will realise that it is all supposition and speculation.  Keep the public in suspense and thinking that some magic breakthrough is just around the corner...it isn't!!  I can tell you now that SY has nothing of any consequence, they are as much in the dark as they were 6 years ago.  This situation will endure too for as long as the Portuguese continue to refuse to reopen the case.  Without Portuguese cooperation SY are helpless to do anything of any consequence in the case.

John, are you in a cynical mood? ;)

- Obviously the Met doesn't have a smoking gun at the moment.

- The tabloids have May marked on their calendar as "Maddie" month - so they were clearly going to need to fill space. Even if it means rehashing whatever is in their dusty files.

Re the police:
- Establishing what should have been more thoroughly investigated six years ago is laudable; figuring out how to advance is no doubt somewhat more complicated.

- I don't really understand the criticism about the Met sitting in London. There is a certain amount that they can do from there, but they just can't barge into another country's archived investigation and reactivate it.

- There are legal issues in Portugal: it won't be reopened unless there is credible evidence, but unless it's reopened, potential leads (in Portugal) can't be investigated to see whether they are credible or not.

The Met (and the PJ homologues) may well be following up what they can - if only to eliminate what can be eliminated.

[ferryman]

Don't kid yourselves guys into thinking that SY has its best detectives on this case and that they are in possession of some striking new evidence because they aren't.  There is no way SY or any other police force will ever solve this case because there is simply no will to do so.  Sitting on their backsides in London will never achieve anything.  As with so many other abductees who have come in from the cold, they have done so through their own efforts, they were not detected by police or any other agencies who in most cases gave them up for dead long ago.

The Portuguese will not reopen this case which is their way of saying we haven't a baldy clue where to go from here.  I agree with them because the trail went cold 6 years ago.  There isn't a single person who has ever been shown to have had any involvement in Maddie's abduction.  All they have are dead end trails and suspects who are all entirely innocent of any involvement.

NSY is currently involved in a damage limitation exercise.  Release a few snippets of information to the baying wolves at Fleet Street and that will keep them happy for a while longer.  You only need to look at the stories which have hit the front pages over the last week relating to Maddie and you will realise that it is all supposition and speculation.  Keep the public in suspense and thinking that some magic breakthrough is just around the corner...it isn't!!  I can tell you now that SY has nothing of any consequence, they are as much in the dark as they were 6 years ago.  This situation will endure too for as long as the Portuguese continue to refuse to reopen the case.  Without Portuguese cooperation SY are helpless to do anything of any consequence in the case.

John, are you in a cynical mood? ;)

- Obviously the Met doesn't have a smoking gun at the moment.

- The tabloids have May marked on their calendar as "Maddie" month - so they were clearly going to need to fill space. Even if it means rehashing whatever is in their dusty files.

Re the police:
- Establishing what should have been more thoroughly investigated six years ago is laudable; figuring out how to advance is no doubt somewhat more complicated.

- I don't really understand the criticism about the Met sitting in London. There is a certain amount that they can do from there, but they just can't barge into another country's archived investigation and reactivate it.

- There are legal issues in Portugal: it won't be reopened unless there is credible evidence, but unless it's reopened, potential leads (in Portugal) can't be investigated to see whether they are credible or not.

The Met (and the PJ homologues) may well be following up what they can - if only to eliminate what can be eliminated.

I'm bound to concede.

I'm more heartened by Carana's assessment than John's.

And realistically, I can't see the Met review as merely some sort of window-dressing exercise, although I suppose that is what it will amount to if the Portuguese point blank refuse to re-open the case ...

Fervently hoping not, as I'm sure John is ...

[John]

Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia.    When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain.  I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed.  These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.

As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch!   They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts?   This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?

[Carana]

Don't kid yourselves guys into thinking that SY has its best detectives on this case and that they are in possession of some striking new evidence because they aren't.  There is no way SY or any other police force will ever solve this case because there is simply no will to do so.  Sitting on their backsides in London will never achieve anything.  As with so many other abductees who have come in from the cold, they have done so through their own efforts, they were not detected by police or any other agencies who in most cases gave them up for dead long ago.

The Portuguese will not reopen this case which is their way of saying we haven't a baldy clue where to go from here.  I agree with them because the trail went cold 6 years ago.  There isn't a single person who has ever been shown to have had any involvement in Maddie's abduction.  All they have are dead end trails and suspects who are all entirely innocent of any involvement.

NSY is currently involved in a damage limitation exercise.  Release a few snippets of information to the baying wolves at Fleet Street and that will keep them happy for a while longer.  You only need to look at the stories which have hit the front pages over the last week relating to Maddie and you will realise that it is all supposition and speculation.  Keep the public in suspense and thinking that some magic breakthrough is just around the corner...it isn't!!  I can tell you now that SY has nothing of any consequence, they are as much in the dark as they were 6 years ago.  This situation will endure too for as long as the Portuguese continue to refuse to reopen the case.  Without Portuguese cooperation SY are helpless to do anything of any consequence in the case.

John, are you in a cynical mood? ;)

- Obviously the Met doesn't have a smoking gun at the moment.

- The tabloids have May marked on their calendar as "Maddie" month - so they were clearly going to need to fill space. Even if it means rehashing whatever is in their dusty files.

Re the police:
- Establishing what should have been more thoroughly investigated six years ago is laudable; figuring out how to advance is no doubt somewhat more complicated.

- I don't really understand the criticism about the Met sitting in London. There is a certain amount that they can do from there, but they just can't barge into another country's archived investigation and reactivate it.

- There are legal issues in Portugal: it won't be reopened unless there is credible evidence, but unless it's reopened, potential leads (in Portugal) can't be investigated to see whether they are credible or not.

The Met (and the PJ homologues) may well be following up what they can - if only to eliminate what can be eliminated.

I'm bound to concede.

I'm more heartened by Carana's assessment than John's.

And realistically, I can't see the Met review as merely some sort of window-dressing exercise, although I suppose that is what it will amount to if the Portuguese point blank refuse to re-open the case ...

Fervently hoping not, as I'm sure John is ...

I don't think that it is a window-dressing exercise, either, but for a variety of reasons...

[sadie]

John, I think that the Mccanns are behaving very well.  SY are in charge now and they are keeping out of the way.

They did their initial search in a different way to some.  Having physically exhausted all the sensible places to look in the vicinity, they thought in an 'encompassing everything' sort of way.  They listened to advice and acted accordingly ... posters, letters, appeals. later the media involvement, publicity, kept themselves physically fit, and mentally supported by the church.  When it became obvious that people wanted to send money in, they set up the search fund, formed a committee and the HTFM group of volunteers.

Then they took advice and employed Metodo, followed unhappily by a fraudster and finally the two PI's.  They constantly found new ways to publicise Madeleines disappearance.  These things dont happen without a huge amount of thought, dedication and effort.

They did all this whilst dragged down by sorrow, whilst being stalked and hounded by Bennett and his cohorts ... and with Kate at obviously near, or actually in, breakdown.   


Right from the start they had a stalwart group of people backing them , but think of the way they must have been dragged down / destroyed by a vociferous mass of people, many jealous low-lives, who could see no good in them and continually criticized them; tried to destroy them. 

Even called them murderers, of their own daughter.... and even insinuated that Gerry had an unhealthy relationship with Madeleine, so had to kill her before she started school and blurted it all out  .

I could go on ... but I will leave it there.


They were magnificent.  I suspect that Gerry was the driving force
These things dont happen without a load of work.  Yes, they made some mistakes, but they searched alright.    Their search was in a more planned and a more advanced way than many of us would have been capable of.

[John]

Just out of curiosity, have they gone on Portuguese and Spanish TV to publicise the abduction of Madeleine and if not, why not?   If Madeleine is still alive the chances are she is still on the Iberian Peninsula somewhere.  Have they ever been to Oporto for example or any other major Portuguese towns to promote the search for Maddie?  I believe the answer is NO!

[icabodcrane]

Just out of curiosity, have they gone on Portuguese and Spanish TV to publicise the abduction of Madeleine and if not, why not?   If Madeleine is still alive the chances are she is still on the Iberian Peninsula somewhere.  Have they ever been to Oporto for example or any other major Portuguese towns to promote the search for Maddie?  I believe the answer is NO!

Yes I'm sure they did John  ...  in fact there is very well known interview on  ( Spanish ?  )  TV 

Gerry is asked about his reaction to the dogs' evidence and rips his microphone off before storming out  ...  leaving Kate alone,  to excuse and apologise for him   ( it's bound to be on youtube somewhere )

[sadie]

John

Everything that I seem to have found leads to Porto area initially. 

It has pleased me that SY are at Porto, but it may have nothing to do with my findings.  That I dont know.

Others may know better than me about Spain and Portugal.  They certainly made a big effort in PdL when they put up notices.  Many were sadly defaced or torn down.  Some sickos around !!!

[John]

Just out of curiosity, have they gone on Portuguese and Spanish TV to publicise the abduction of Madeleine and if not, why not?   If Madeleine is still alive the chances are she is still on the Iberian Peninsula somewhere.  Have they ever been to Oporto for example or any other major Portuguese towns to promote the search for Maddie?  I believe the answer is NO!

Yes I'm sure they did John  ...  in fact there is very well known interview on  ( Spanish ?  )  TV 

Gerry is asked about his reaction to the dogs' evidence and rips his microphone off before storming out  ...  leaving Kate alone,  to excuse and apologise for him   ( it's bound to be on youtube somewhere )

Yes, I saw that particular interview for what it was worth.  What a muppet...so embarrassing for Kate.   If that was their best effort in appealing for help from the Spanish or Portuguese people then I rest my case.  They spent far too long wasting time around PDL after Madeleine was abducted, they should have widened the appeal to take in the whole of Portugal.

[registrar]

Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia.    When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain.  I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed.  These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.

As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch!   They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts?   This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?

A valid view - whichever way you look at it 'Team McCann' did very little by way of searching - physical searching that is.


Both are fit and healthy - their running activities all known to us.

We have pictorial evidence of GNR looking into bins, members of the public looking down wells, hell even microlights scouring the area above Luz - none of those pictures feature G&K - the only exception to my recollection - Gerry taking a stroll down the rocks adjoining the church in Luz.

HERE comes the lobbed grenade - what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?

'She'll give you her tuppence worth - keep her warm' etc.

Couple that with the instant need to publish THEIR phone number right away, alongside the PJ's and that curious Ward of Court set up - that to my knowledge has hitherto only been done in camera - not in front of flashing cameras.

It all goes back to the words of Justice Hogg 'I ponder this person'.

No need to kayak the Algarve coast - if you're certain the child is with uncle and auntie  (say) and won't be hurt.

Just put out a big prize money (the fund) and wait for them to come to you - all anonymously.

A trade off

Tin hat at the ready

[icabodcrane]

Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia.    When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain.  I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed.  These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.

As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch!   They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts?   This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?

A valid view - whichever way you look at it 'Team McCann' did very little by way of searching - physical searching that is.


Both are fit and healthy - their running activities all known to us.

We have pictorial evidence of GNR looking into bins, members of the public looking down wells, hell even microlights scouring the area above Luz - none of those pictures feature G&K - the only exception to my recollection - Gerry taking a stroll down the rocks adjoining the church in Luz.

HERE comes the lobbed grenade - what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?

'She'll give you her tuppence worth - keep her warm' etc.

Couple that with the instant need to publish THEIR phone number right away, alongside the PJ's and that curious Ward of Court set up - that to my knowledge has hitherto only been done in camera - not in front of flashing cameras.

It all goes back to the words of Justice Hogg 'I ponder this person'.

No need to kayak the Algarve coast - if you're certain the child is with uncle and auntie  (say) and won't be hurt.

Just put out a big prize money (the fund) and wait for them to come to you - all anonymously.

A trade off

Tin hat at the ready

Conspiracy theories are rarely valid   ...  the truth is almost always quite simple in the end

I'm interested in your theory though  (  and not in an abstract way  ...  I am genuinely interested ) 

Do you feel up to sharing ? 

[registrar]

Sorry pal

that's it in a nutshell

WoC/the much publicised fund - we had daily updates on how much dosh had been raised - and the eagerness to put their  phone number in the public domain

made this poster query matters McCann

[John]

I'm interested in this conveniently forgotten reward fund which doesn't feature any longer and which the McCanns refuse to discuss or answer any questions about.  In fact they don't appear to want to answer any questions at all these days unless it is carefully choreographed.  Strange for a couple who claim to be willing to do anything to find their missing daughter?  Hmm... >@@(*&)

[Chinagirl]

Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia.    When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain.  I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed.  These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.

As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch!   They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts?   This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?

A valid view - whichever way you look at it 'Team McCann' did very little by way of searching - physical searching that is.


Both are fit and healthy - their running activities all known to us.

We have pictorial evidence of GNR looking into bins, members of the public looking down wells, hell even microlights scouring the area above Luz - none of those pictures feature G&K - the only exception to my recollection - Gerry taking a stroll down the rocks adjoining the church in Luz.

HERE comes the lobbed grenade - what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?

'She'll give you her tuppence worth - keep her warm' etc.

Couple that with the instant need to publish THEIR phone number right away, alongside the PJ's and that curious Ward of Court set up - that to my knowledge has hitherto only been done in camera - not in front of flashing cameras.

It all goes back to the words of Justice Hogg 'I ponder this person'.

No need to kayak the Algarve coast - if you're certain the child is with uncle and auntie  (say) and won't be hurt.

Just put out a big prize money (the fund) and wait for them to come to you - all anonymously.

A trade off

Tin hat at the ready

Conspiracy theories are rarely valid   ...  the truth is almost always quite simple in the end

I'm interested in your theory though  (  and not in an abstract way  ...  I am genuinely interested ) 

Do you feel up to sharing ?

This is not a new theory/idea - it's an old, typical anti theory - Madeleine being "allowed" to be abducted by someone who genuinely wanted her (her parents could no longer be bothered with her because they now had the twins/she was hyperactive/ she had some imperfection (take your pick) for which not a shred of evidence exists.