Lies, lies and more dam llies...

[Puffin]

Returning to John's original post on here, has a response been given?  We need to know!!   Puffin    >@@(*&)

No...no response or retraction from the member concerned.

That's a bit rude of him/her, John, but maybe your comments struck a raw nerve?  Ah, well, what can one say?    Doesn't no retraction up the banning ante?

[sadie]

Sadie posted:

quote

Oh Gerry searched alright.  How much, I dont know.  I well remember photos of him with a man (was it his brother in Law) searching the cracks in the cliffs, and also between the boulders below on the beach near Rocha Negro. 

I bet that Kate was told not to search, distressed, children to look after, the possibility of seeing the decomposing body of her first born.  Kates health has been very frail.

unquote

not that frail

I am not talking about her physical health, but about what it did to her:
1)  Losing Madeleine
2)  Being made an arguido and being put on the rack by the PJ
3)  Having to put up with cruel unsubstantiated accusations from lowlifes who should have known better, but prefer to behave like Fascists and put the boot in at every opportunity

Nothing wrong with going jogging with Gerry.  Probably the only time that they could talk privately to each other and discuss the case. 

Also beneficial healthwise.

http://endurate.com/2012/01/16/seven-psychological-benefits-of-running/


As doctors they would know this

[sadie]

http://endurate.com/2012/01/16/seven-psychological-benefits-of-running/



Seven Psychological Benefits of Running

Running has been recommended by many doctors and therapists to people who are in the quest to improving their mental health. This is because running, like other exercises, unquestionably takes care of the mental health as efficiently as it does to oneís physical well-being. There are many psychological benefits of running, but here are the seven most cited:

1. Reduces stress and anxiety
Runners are known to be less stressed and are more able to deal with their daily stressors effectively. This is attributed to the fact that running refreshes their thoughts, keeps their minds off worries, and gives them ample and undistracted time to think, reflect, and concentrate. In addition, according to some reports, running is more efficient in addressing anxieties better than medications.

2. Enhances mood
When running, the body produces a substance called endorphin (endogenous morphine) that creates a different sense of euphoria. This state of euphoria is called runnerís high basically because after running, individuals are in a good mood, are happier, and indescribably feel better. Runnerís high is also believed to be responsible for the runnersí seeming ìaddictionî to running: Because they are always intensely post-euphoric, runners keep running every chance they get.

3. Improves confidence
The sense of achievement after finishing a run or completing a target distance boosts the runnersí confidence. This is especially true of people who are naturally competitive they regularly sign up for marathons and other running events. Improved confidence also comes to people who have noticeably lost weight and achieved more toned and firmer muscles through running.

4. Fights addiction
Running is conceived to be a natural tranquilizer, which is why therapists recommend it to those who are battling with their addiction. Many successful stories have been documented, saying that recovering patients use the time they would otherwise spend to satisfy their addiction in running. Through running, patients also become mentally stronger to resist the urge of alcohol, drugs, or anything they feel addicted to.

5. Develops mental alertness and focus
Because running keeps the mind on the ìnow,î the mind is trained to focus and concentrate. Running also relieves mental fatigue, sharpens memory, and improves overall mental stamina. Runners, in effect, are found to have better problem-solving skills and are more mentally alert than before.

6. Relieves depression
Running is found successful in treating clinical depression. The act of running, according to therapists, serves as a psychotherapy, which gives the patients their own space to heal and connect with their selves better. They also say it is a good distraction from all depressing things. Other than depression, physicians also find running an effective therapy for people with other types of psychological disorders.

The coordination of mind and body is improved with regular running. Whether running on a flat, paved surface or on an uneven trail, the mind is trained to harmoniously work with the body to prevent stumbling and tripping over. Like the other psychological benefits of running, better mind-body coordination is important in daily activities.

[Carana]

And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?

Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.

The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.

A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.

You find your child missing in a foreign country and are convinced she's been abducted.

You contact the police.

Then what?

You DON'T
- contact your consulate for help?
- try to contact anyone who may be able to help?
- try to get her details publicised as fast and as widely as possible?

What would you have done differently once you'd discovered your child missing?

[registrar]

And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?

Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.

The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.

A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.

You find your child missing in a foreign country and are convinced she's been abducted.

You contact the police.

Then what?

You DON'T
- contact your consulate for help?
- try to contact anyone who may be able to help?
- try to get her details publicised as fast and as widely as possible?

What would you have done differently once you'd discovered your child missing?

Whilst all the above action points are of value,

I would NOT have jetted off to the Vatican, Germany and Morocco for pointless photo ops.

I would NOT have created a 'Team McCann' thus rendering the search impersonable and corporate

I would NOT have gone jogging 

I CERTAINLY would have not returned my remaining children to the OC's creche the day after the disappearance of my first born.

I CERTAINLY would have not written a book explaining my physical relationship with my partner and mentioning my missing child's genitalia in graphic detail (a book intended for the twins - remember?)

All those things I would NOT have done 

Does that answer your question?

[sadie]

And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?

Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.

The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.

A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.

You find your child missing in a foreign country and are convinced she's been abducted.

You contact the police.

Then what?

You DON'T
- contact your consulate for help?
- try to contact anyone who may be able to help?
- try to get her details publicised as fast and as widely as possible?

What would you have done differently once you'd discovered your child missing?

[Carana]

And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?

Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.

The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.

A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.

You find your child missing in a foreign country and are convinced she's been abducted.

You contact the police.

Then what?

You DON'T
- contact your consulate for help?
- try to contact anyone who may be able to help?
- try to get her details publicised as fast and as widely as possible?

What would you have done differently once you'd discovered your child missing?

Whilst all the above action points are of value,

I would NOT have jetted off to the Vatican, Germany and Morocco for pointless photo ops.

I would NOT have created a 'Team McCann' thus rendering the search impersonable and corporate

I would NOT have gone jogging 

I CERTAINLY would have not returned my remaining children to the OC's creche the day after the disappearance of my first born.

I CERTAINLY would have not written a book explaining my physical relationship with my partner and mentioning my missing child's genitalia in graphic detail (a book intended for the twins - remember?)

All those things I would NOT have done 

Does that answer your question?

I have never been in that situation, and I hope that you haven't either.

Have a quiet read of that booklet (it was the fruit of several families who HAVE been through such situations).

[registrar]

if you read back - I was invited to suggest what I would or would not do in that scenario.

I did not create the premise.

I took part in a discussion.

[amaraltheofficeboy]

odd how this thread has become yet another knock the Mccanns threads.

[Carana]

if you read back - I was invited to suggest what I would or would not do in that scenario.

I did not create the premise.

I took part in a discussion.

Fair comment. Can we change the wording of the question then? What would you DO (as opposed to wouldn't do) in such circumstances that would be so different (bearing in mind the advice in the booklet)?

[registrar]

if you read back - I was invited to suggest what I would or would not do in that scenario.

I did not create the premise.

I took part in a discussion.

Fair comment. Can we change the wording of the question then? What would you DO (as opposed to wouldn't do) in such circumstances that would be so different (bearing in mind the advice in the booklet)?

Considering I was with my partner and a group of seven friends (all familiar with Madeleine)

I would have reception call GNR as a matter of urgency

Grabbed all the torches available at reception and local bars and restaurants - and started SEARCHING

I would not have doodled a 'timeline' in the missing child's colouring book.

SKY News or the consulate would have been of secondary importance at that moment in time.

Clear enough reply?

ETA they do have torch lights in the Algarve, here, Gerry's first words to the press:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avf4jHNuzPU

[amaraltheofficeboy]

Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia.    When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain.  I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed.  These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.

As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch!   They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts?   This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?

A valid view - whichever way you look at it 'Team McCann' did very little by way of searching - physical searching that is.


Both are fit and healthy - their running activities all known to us.

We have pictorial evidence of GNR looking into bins, members of the public looking down wells, hell even microlights scouring the area above Luz - none of those pictures feature G&K - the only exception to my recollection - Gerry taking a stroll down the rocks adjoining the church in Luz.

HERE comes the lobbed grenade - what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?

'She'll give you her tuppence worth - keep her warm' etc.

Couple that with the instant need to publish THEIR phone number right away, alongside the PJ's and that curious Ward of Court set up - that to my knowledge has hitherto only been done in camera - not in front of flashing cameras.

It all goes back to the words of Justice Hogg 'I ponder this person'.

No need to kayak the Algarve coast - if you're certain the child is with uncle and auntie  (say) and won't be hurt.

Just put out a big prize money (the fund) and wait for them to come to you - all anonymously.

A trade off

Tin hat at the ready

Conspiracy theories are rarely valid   ...  the truth is almost always quite simple in the end

I'm interested in your theory though  (  and not in an abstract way  ...  I am genuinely interested ) 

Do you feel up to sharing ?

This is not a new theory/idea - it's an old, typical anti theory - Madeleine being "allowed" to be abducted by someone who genuinely wanted her (her parents could no longer be bothered with her because they now had the twins/she was hyperactive/ she had some imperfection (take your pick) for which not a shred of evidence exists.

 

Where does it imply the parents 'allowed' an abduction in my post?

Reread and apologise for a deliberate misinterpretation at your leisure please.

I don't know whether you are from England/Wales - but you might want to read up on when WoC is used in 90% of cases.

Where does it imply the parents 'allowed' an abduction in my post?

what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?

[Carana]

if you read back - I was invited to suggest what I would or would not do in that scenario.

I did not create the premise.

I took part in a discussion.

Fair comment. Can we change the wording of the question then? What would you DO (as opposed to wouldn't do) in such circumstances that would be so different (bearing in mind the advice in the booklet)?

Considering I was with my partner and a group of seven friends (all familiar with Madeleine)

I would have reception call GNR as a matter of urgency

Someone did.

Grabbed all the torches available at reception and local bars and restaurants - and started SEARCHING

The missing child protocol was activated. They needed the torches. Staff were even ringing up off-duty colleagues to try to get extra ones.

I would not have doodled a 'timeline' in the missing child's colouring book.

It was Russ who was trying to collate a timeline at whatever time of night.

SKY News or the consulate would have been of secondary importance at that moment in time.

Aside from consular contact, Rachael got hold of a friend whose husband worked for the BBC. David Payne sent an email to Sky via another holiday-maker's computer. 

Clear enough reply?

Recall how Gerry read out his first response to the media in the glow of a torch - light? They do have them in the Algarve you know.

That first media response wasn't on the night in question.

[registrar]

'The missing child protocol was activated'

oh goody that did a load of good then - NOT

You don't work for Mark Warner perchance?

[Benice]

When Your Child Goes Missing: Survival Guide

 Your Role in the Search:The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of thesearch, devote your time to providing informationto and answering questions from investigators.

 Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want tohelp with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.


http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/when-your-child-goes-missing/

Isn't this what happened with April Jones parents?

It's what happened with the McCann couple too, they spent the rest of the time at the police station answering questions just after she went missing. Still, earlier than that, they were out in the streets of PDL searching. People still deliberately "misunderstand" the "I didn't physically search" interview quote from Kate McCann.

Indeed.  IIRC Nowhere in that interview is Kate asked about the searching she and Gerry did - or M.Warner's search procedure  - only whether she felt she had wanted to join in with the searches, which went on for a long time in the days afterwards by the locals.     Im sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong but from memory  - her immediate reply was  ..'Well, I did'  - which apparently to some people means 'No I didn't'.   

Any physical searching by the McCanns would have been impractical anyway because of the hordes of media people who had descended on PdL.

And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?

Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.

The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.

A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.

The media arrived the following day - they were not invited by the McCanns.     The only contact that had been made to the media at that point was for the sole purpose of bringing Madeleine's abduction to the attention of the public as soon as possible.  Are you saying that was wrong?

Anyway, none of that has any bearing on my comment that it would not have been possible for the McCanns to go out searching - because they would have been immediately surrounded by the waiting reporters and photographers.   I've no doubt that they were advised not to even attempt it.