Author Topic: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review  (Read 34085 times)

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Offline Faithlilly

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2013, 11:27:35 PM »

And you wonder why trust broke down between the Tapas members and the Police.  I always thought the reason for people being made arguidos was so that the police could ask suspects questions that could incriminate them.  Trying to get someone to confess to passing a child through a window is pretty incriminating to me.

After sitting there for 8 hours, then hearing that, it is enough to stress any person out.

So your proof is several self-serving passages from Kate's own book and of course she has never written a lie, has she ?

M'lud exhibit one for the prosecution, a passage from Madeleine by Kate McCann claiming cadaver scent lasts for no more than 30 days.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:37:42 PM by Admin »
'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2013, 11:28:09 PM »
So the PJ allow the interview to be postponed but can't get off their ar..s to do another interview at all?

No damm wonder the McCanns wanted others to get involved and do some real searching for their daughter.

Yet another example of the complete cock up that they were witnessing from the PJ.

And there are posters here who simply refuse to see or are so lacking in empathetic emotional ability to understand the desperation of parents faced with such useless police activity.

Astounding.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:38:05 PM by Admin »

Offline TTSOFAFM

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2013, 11:28:58 PM »
Again you are incorrect.  The law group that flew out to the McCanns flew out on the afternoon of the 11th May 2007.  And the reason they became involved is because of a colleague of Gerry's.

Quote
One of the offers of help we’d received came from a paralegal based in Leicester, via a colleague of Gerry’s. He worked for a firm specializing in family law, the International Family Law Group (IFLG). It was difficult to know what this company could do but we decided it would be worth meeting them to discuss the possibilities. So on the afternoon of Friday 11 May, the paralegal, accompanied by a barrister, flew out to Portugal.

McCann, Kate (2011-05-12). Madeleine (p. 124). Random House UK. Kindle Edition.
When you know someone in a situation as the McCanns were, you do tend to find that colleagues, friends and family pull out all stops to get you the help you need.  Nothing untoward about that at all. 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:52:32 PM by Admin »

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2013, 11:29:13 PM »

Unfortunately Gilet you tend to be treated the way you treat others. Unfortunate truth but there it is.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:30:10 PM by Admin »
'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2013, 11:31:24 PM »
So your proof is several self-serving passages from Kate's own book and of course she has never written a lie, has she ?

M'lud exhibit one for the prosecution, a passage from Madeleine by Kate McCann claiming cadaver scent lasts for no more than 30 days.

And the actual evidence is that there is no record of any further interview being done till September. But don't let that fact spoil your little dig will you.

The PJ were making a complete pigs ear of the case and the McCanns who were at the heart of it recognised that. UK journalists and former police who were in PDL also recognised the same facts about the incompetent PJ search and yet you cannot understand that the parents of a child who were witnessing this incompetence would want to do EVERYTHING including using others to help. Shame on you.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:53:35 PM by Admin »

Offline TTSOFAFM

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2013, 11:32:57 PM »

So your proof is several self-serving passages from Kate's own book and of course she has never written a lie, has she ?

M'lud exhibit one for the prosecution, a passage from Madeleine by Kate McCann claiming cadaver scent lasts for no more than 30 days.
Have I quoted about the dogs?  No. so your comment is meaningless.  By the way, Kate McCann's book has been on sale in Portugal for a good couple of years now.  It has not been banned, there are no legal writs imposed on the book or Kate McCann so I take it that what she has written is the truth and not libellous, unlike someone's book.  You know the one, I am referring to, the book where the author pens in the forward that by releasing all the facts about the case in his book, he knows that it will hinder the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:37:10 PM by Admin »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2013, 11:33:32 PM »


Astonishing to you who is showing no real emotional empathy with the parents of a missing child.

To those who recognise that emotionally, people are likely to be in pieces, at such a time and grasping at every straw that is within reach it is totally natural that they would be taking any offers of help and seeking any potential help.
Gilet, does empathy help you to understand Tweedledum and Tweedledee ? I hope so.
Try empathy concerning Redblossom... One never knows.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #52 on: May 31, 2013, 11:39:01 PM »
And the actual evidence is that there is no record of any further interview being done till September. But don't let that fact spoil your little dig will you.

The PJ were making a complete pigs ear of the case and the McCanns who were at the heart of it recognised that. UK journalists and former police who were in PDL also recognised the same facts about the incompetent PJ search and yet you cannot understand that the parents of a child who were witnessing this incompetence would want to do EVERYTHING including using others to help. Shame on you.

What former police ? John Stalker who thought the McCanns and their friends were hiding something or perhaps MWT who's media company had close ties with the McCanns ? As for journalists, that'd swear black was white if it made for good copy.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:48:51 PM by Admin »
'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #53 on: May 31, 2013, 11:42:04 PM »
Yes empathy does help me understand Tweedledum and Tweedledee. When I have seen people bumbling around I have thought of them in exactly the same terms.

Tweedledum and Tweedledee is a very good literary reference to bumbling idiots who say they are doing something but never get it done.

I get the distinct impression from reports by the McCanns, various journalists and various UK Policing professionals who were in PDL in the early stages of the investigation that this is precisely how the PJ were acting.

What kind of empathy am I to show with someone who appears to totally lack any such emotional maturity?  If people cannot understand and empathise with the desperation a parent might feel when a child is missing then that is their problem not mine.


« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:56:03 PM by Admin »

Offline Benice

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2013, 11:42:27 PM »
I would point out that Kate McCann cancelled what would have been only her second interview with police on the 11th of May on the grounds of her 'wellbeing' 

Actually it was Alan Pike who asked for Kate's interview to be postponed for a few days.  She had sat in the waiting room for 8 hours waiting to be interviewed.  She was then told to go home and come back the next day.  Finally when Gerry returned he told her of what had happened during Mat Oldfield's interview.

Quote
I sat in the waiting area for eight hours before I was told that it was now too late for me to be interviewed and I should go home and come back the next day. Gerry was there for thirteen hours. When he finally returned to the apartment he related how Matt had been almost hysterical during his interview. Gerry had heard him shouting and crying. Apparently, it had been put to Matt that he’d handed Madeleine out through the window to a third party. It was like something out of Life on Mars. Alan Pike was concerned about my wellbeing and asked for my rescheduled interview to be postponed for a few days. The PJ couldn’t have considered it all that important: it was 6 September before I was interviewed again.

McCann, Kate (2011-05-12). Madeleine (pp. 123-124). Random House UK. Kindle Edition.

And you wonder why trust broke down between the Tapas members and the Police.  I always thought the reason for people being made arguidos was so that the police could ask suspects questions that could incriminate them.  Trying to get someone to confess to passing a child through a window is pretty incriminating to me.

After sitting there for 8 hours, then hearing that, it is enough to stress any person out.


Excellent post TT.  Alan Pike was a very experienced trauma counsellor, who amongst others had helped some of the families of the Hillsborough victims.    He spent a great deal of time with the McCanns.   One would think with his vast experience that he of all people would have noticed anything untoward about the behaviour of the McCanns and yet he recognised it as perfectly typical of victims of trauma.      The stress must have been enormous and added to that  - the long hours spent at the police station were totally unacceptable IMO.

The sceptics seem unable to accept the effect that such massive trauma and stress has on human beings - and expect the McCanns to have been completely unaffected by what had happened.  imo.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:56:31 PM by Admin »
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2013, 11:45:04 PM »
What former police ? John Stalker who thought the McCanns and their friends were hiding something or perhaps MWT who's media company had close ties with the McCanns ? As for journalists, that'd swear black was white if it made for good copy.
[/quote]

Among others, yes.

All builds up a picture, which was available in images as well on video and in photo form.

There are the "forensic" people who didn't even wear forensic protective gear. Even Grime who should have known better was utterly casual in this respect when working with the PJ.

There are reports of the borders not being closed, searches not being co-ordinated properly by the police.

Trying to pretend that the PJ did a wonderful job is insane. They did not.







EDITED TO STATE
For some reason Admin seems to have been editing lots of posts.
In this case I would like to point out that it is Admin and not me who has made a pigs ear of the quotes.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 04:34:06 AM by gilet »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2013, 11:47:11 PM »

And of course the 'action' the McCanns took has lead to what ? Certainly not Madeleine. Perhaps they should have listened to the PJ in the first place.
I see a positive point. Control Risks didn't find Madeleine likely for the same reasons the PJ didn't find her as well. One can't blame the second and excuse the first. Both were professionals.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2013, 11:48:30 PM »

So your proof is several self-serving passages from Kate's own book and of course she has never written a lie, has she ?

M'lud exhibit one for the prosecution, a passage from Madeleine by Kate McCann claiming cadaver scent lasts for no more than 30 days.
Have I quoted about the dogs?  No. so your comment is meaningless.  By the way, Kate McCann's book has been on sale in Portugal for a good couple of years now.  It has not been banned, there are no legal writs imposed on the book or Kate McCann so I take it that what she has written is the truth and not libellous, unlike someone's book.  You know the one, I am referring to, the book where the author pens in the forward that by releasing all the facts about the case in his book, he knows that it will hinder the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The point I was making with regard to the dogs is that Kate was untruthful in her tome when she suggested cadaver scent lasted 30  days therefore everything she has written must also be approached with caution and verified independently.

As to the subject of litigation, unlike the McCanns, most ordinary people don't have a fund to bankroll them if they choose to sue and I would very much doubt libel lawyers such as Duarte undertake work on a CFA basis.

As to hindering the investigation, isn't that what Kate was warned she would be doing by not answering those pesky 48 questions ?
'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #58 on: May 31, 2013, 11:50:20 PM »
Excellent post TT.  Alan Pike was a very experienced trauma counsellor, who amongst others had helped some of the families of the Hillsborough victims.    He spent a great deal of time with the McCanns.   One would think with his vast experience that he of all people would have noticed anything untoward about the behaviour of the McCanns and yet he recognised it as perfectly typical of victims of trauma.      The stress must have been enormous and added to that  - the long hours spent at the police station were totally unacceptable IMO.

The sceptics seem unable to accept the effect that such massive trauma and stress has on human beings - and expect the McCanns to have been completely unaffected by what had happened.  imo.


 

Exactly. They are looking at the actions of the McCanns as if nothing of any importance had happened at all. As if they were in a completely normal situation and thinking rationally.  Sheer panic, desperation and fear what might be happening to the missing child is being ignored. 

This complete lack of empathy is indicative of people who don't believe there was any need to panic, who have already made up their minds that the McCanns were lying and fully cogniscent of the fate of their daughter. It makes little sense otherwise, because surely no adult can be so ignorant as to fail to realise that when a child is missing panic and fear and desperation are what drive you forward?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:51:09 PM by Admin »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #59 on: May 31, 2013, 11:54:25 PM »


The sceptics seem unable to accept the effect that such massive trauma and stress has on human beings - and expect the McCanns to have been completely unaffected by what had happened.  imo.

We're individuals, not substitutable beings like in communist regime. So please consider putting an end to this ludicrous Manichaean bipartition of the humanity into sceptics and... not sceptics.