Author Topic: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review  (Read 37689 times)

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Offline Benice

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #105 on: June 01, 2013, 12:44:18 AM »


Because I believe that Madeleine was the victim of stranger abduction -  then to NOT support the McCanns is to support the abductor(s) IMO.    Thanks but no thanks.
What about Madeleine abducted not from bed, but from outside, searching for her parents? Is not supporting Mr and Mrs McCann also supporting the abductor ?

IMO she was abducted from her bed.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline TTSOFAFM

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #106 on: June 01, 2013, 12:45:30 AM »
No TT this was the article I was thinking of http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490254/McCanns-hiding-big-secret-police-chief-claims.html

McCanns 'are hiding a big secret', former police chief claims
Last updated at 14:34 28 October 2007

Kate and Gerry McCann are hiding a "big secret" about the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, according a former police chief claims.
John Stalker, who headed a famous inquiry into whether suspected IRA men were killed by RUC officers, is suspicious of their silence.
Scroll down for more...

Expert analysis: Former police chief John Stalker believes the McCanns are hiding a secret
Read more...
McCanns face agonising wait to clear their names
The former Deputy Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police told the Sunday Express: ?My gut instinct is that some big secret is probably being covered up.
?I have watched the investigation into the Madeleine McCann case drag out for six months.
?One thing above all worries me: Why have the McCanns and the seven other members of their group ? the Tapas Nine ? remained so silent?
?Unlike other high-profile cases I have worked on, not one of them has been prepared to break ranks or really come out and support each other.
?After all this time and pressure, I cannot believe that nobody wants to speak.
?I have a real suspicion that we are not being told the whole truth. There is something else there, some issue that members of the party are embarrassed about?

Well your article is from the Daily Mail in which they quote the Daily Express. My article is the Daily Express article which is the correct one.  So what are your opinions now?  Now that you have read exactly what John Stalker said.

You mean the utterly truthful Express who paid the McCanns an out of court settlement of half a million pounds for telling lies about them, that Express ?

Care to supply a link for the Express article ?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/6oct7/EXPRESS-28-10-07.htm

Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #107 on: June 01, 2013, 12:46:28 AM »

Yes Schengen ones. Police roadblocks can be put on any road anywhere including at Schengen borders.
Roadblocks ? But the carrier was walking..

Kate says in her book that before the police had arrived  (  whilst she was banging her fist on the metal  railings of the veranda )  David Payne was already remarking :

"We need roadblocks set up. The borders to Spain, Morocco and Algiers need to be alerted"

They weren't outside searching ditches and gardens looking for her  ...  they were immediately talking about Morocco and Agiers !

Yes, its that lack of empathy and understanding again.

Can you not understand that when something happens as traumatic as a child going missing people might say and do anything which might just might possibly have an effect.

Clearly you wouldn't give a damm about the borders if your child went missing. But most sane people would realise that your lack of concern is not normal.

Well,  there it is

I would have been like Holly Wells father,  who rode his bike through the streets like a madman  screaming  his little girls name out into the darkness  (  God love him ) 

I think that's  normal ...  and I am glad to differ with you in that respect

Everyone is different but almost no-one would remain utterly unmoved as certain posters here seem to imagine, by the disappearance of their child.

Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #108 on: June 01, 2013, 12:48:03 AM »
No TT this was the article I was thinking of http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490254/McCanns-hiding-big-secret-police-chief-claims.html

McCanns 'are hiding a big secret', former police chief claims
Last updated at 14:34 28 October 2007

Kate and Gerry McCann are hiding a "big secret" about the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, according a former police chief claims.
John Stalker, who headed a famous inquiry into whether suspected IRA men were killed by RUC officers, is suspicious of their silence.
Scroll down for more...

Expert analysis: Former police chief John Stalker believes the McCanns are hiding a secret
Read more...
McCanns face agonising wait to clear their names
The former Deputy Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police told the Sunday Express: ?My gut instinct is that some big secret is probably being covered up.
?I have watched the investigation into the Madeleine McCann case drag out for six months.
?One thing above all worries me: Why have the McCanns and the seven other members of their group ? the Tapas Nine ? remained so silent?
?Unlike other high-profile cases I have worked on, not one of them has been prepared to break ranks or really come out and support each other.
?After all this time and pressure, I cannot believe that nobody wants to speak.
?I have a real suspicion that we are not being told the whole truth. There is something else there, some issue that members of the party are embarrassed about?

Well your article is from the Daily Mail in which they quote the Daily Express. My article is the Daily Express article which is the correct one.  So what are your opinions now?  Now that you have read exactly what John Stalker said.

You mean the utterly truthful Express who paid the McCanns an out of court settlement of half a million pounds for telling lies about them, that Express ?

Care to supply a link for the Express article ?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/6oct7/EXPRESS-28-10-07.htm

Direct quotes are not the same as the invented garbage for which a number of newspapers were rightfully punished.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #109 on: June 01, 2013, 12:50:05 AM »
David Payne was already remarking :

"We need roadblocks set up. The borders to Spain, Morocco and Algiers need to be alerted"

Spain is in Schengen. Do you think that Portugal has the power to roadblock Schengen borders ?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #110 on: June 01, 2013, 12:50:45 AM »
No TT this was the article I was thinking of http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490254/McCanns-hiding-big-secret-police-chief-claims.html

McCanns 'are hiding a big secret', former police chief claims
Last updated at 14:34 28 October 2007

Kate and Gerry McCann are hiding a "big secret" about the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, according a former police chief claims.
John Stalker, who headed a famous inquiry into whether suspected IRA men were killed by RUC officers, is suspicious of their silence.
Scroll down for more...

Expert analysis: Former police chief John Stalker believes the McCanns are hiding a secret
Read more...
McCanns face agonising wait to clear their names
The former Deputy Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police told the Sunday Express: ?My gut instinct is that some big secret is probably being covered up.
?I have watched the investigation into the Madeleine McCann case drag out for six months.
?One thing above all worries me: Why have the McCanns and the seven other members of their group ? the Tapas Nine ? remained so silent?
?Unlike other high-profile cases I have worked on, not one of them has been prepared to break ranks or really come out and support each other.
?After all this time and pressure, I cannot believe that nobody wants to speak.
?I have a real suspicion that we are not being told the whole truth. There is something else there, some issue that members of the party are embarrassed about?

Well your article is from the Daily Mail in which they quote the Daily Express. My article is the Daily Express article which is the correct one.  So what are your opinions now?  Now that you have read exactly what John Stalker said.

You mean the utterly truthful Express who paid the McCanns an out of court settlement of half a million pounds for telling lies about them, that Express ?

Care to supply a link for the Express article ?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/6oct7/EXPRESS-28-10-07.htm

The link doesn't work for me but here is the article in full :


McCanns 'are hiding a big secret' Sunday Express (article no longer available online)


By John Stalker
Sunday October 28, 2007

I HAVE watched the investigation into the Madeleine McCann case drag out for six months.

One thing above all worries me: Why have the McCanns and the seven other members of their group – the Tapas Nine – remained so silent? My gut instinct is that some big secret is probably being covered up.

Unlike other high-profile cases I have worked on, not one of them has been prepared to break ranks or really come out and support each other. After all this time and pressure, I cannot believe that nobody wants to speak.

Their answer has always been no comment but there is surely some division between them. So what are they hiding? I have a real suspicion that we are not being told the whole truth.

There is something else there, some issue that members of the party are embarrassed about.

While they continue to refuse to talk it is unlikely we will find out what it is for a very long time but one thing is certain – it will eventually come out.

The sad fact is that we still have a missing girl and I believe the investigation will be focusing on the theory that she is dead.

The likeliest scenario is that her abductor panicked when he realised the attention the case was creating and killed her days after snatching her.

My fear now is that unless we find her body or her killer strikes again we will never know what really happened to that tiny child.

My instinct, based on years of policing similar cases, is that we are looking at an abduction where the child was targeted in the days before her disappearance.

On the night she vanished it is likely that her abductor simply spotted his opportunity and struck while he could.

I have been horrified by the abject failure of the Portuguese detectives to adhere to basic principles of policing.

The investigation does not seem to have taken a step forward from where it was in the first week after she went missing. I cannot believe that the Portuguese only sent selected DNA samples to the forensic science lab in Birmingham.

There is absolutely no sense in that whatsoever. To fully evaluate poor-quality DNA traces, as we believe these were, forensic experts need to see the whole picture.

In the past, when I have dealt with traces of bodily fluids, it is very difficult to establish how they got to be where they were.

All DNA is highly transferable and that is the most likely explanation for the alleged traces found in the McCanns' hire car and on her mother's clothing. Robert Murat, the other suspect, was seen close to the apartment the day after Madeleine disappeared and freely admits having helped police as a translator.

If he was in that apartment, or anywhere near it, there is no doubt he would have transferred some of Madeleine's or the twins' DNA on to his clothing.

I don't believe for one minute that Kate and Gerry McCann or their friends are capable or guilty of having murdered the four-year-old.

All the criticism of Kate and Gerry and their friends has been completely out of order. They are extremely intelligent and articulate people and, just because they have never visibly cracked in public to the extent that they are beaten, does not mean they are guilty of anything sinister.

Yes, they have had more doors opened for them than other people would have in similar circumstances, but their main aim is to discover what happened to Madeleine. That should be the aim of all concerned.

But my gut instinct still forces me to wonder: What is the secret that the Tapas Nine are so carefully hiding?

    


Offline Benice

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #111 on: June 01, 2013, 12:51:08 AM »

Yes Schengen ones. Police roadblocks can be put on any road anywhere including at Schengen borders.
Roadblocks ? But the carrier was walking..

Kate says in her book that before the police had arrived  (  whilst she was banging her fist on the metal  railings of the veranda )  David Payne was already remarking :

"We need roadblocks set up. The borders to Spain, Morocco and Algiers need to be alerted"

They weren't outside searching ditches and gardens looking for her  ...  they were immediately talking about Morocco and Agiers !

Yes, its that lack of empathy and understanding again.

Can you not understand that when something happens as traumatic as a child going missing people might say and do anything which might just might possibly have an effect.

Clearly you wouldn't give a damm about the borders if your child went missing. But most sane people would realise that your lack of concern is not normal.

Well,  there it is

I would have been like Holly Wells father,  who rode his bike through the streets like a madman  screaming  his little girls name out into the darkness  (  God love him ) 

I think that's  normal ...  and I am glad to differ with you in that respect

Did Jessica's father do the same  - and if not does that make him abnormal or any less caring in your opinion?



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #112 on: June 01, 2013, 12:52:50 AM »
David Payne was already remarking :

"We need roadblocks set up. The borders to Spain, Morocco and Algiers need to be alerted"

Spain is in Schengen. Do you think that Portugal has the power to roadblock Schengen borders ?

Yes.
They put a roadblock on the Portuguese side.
It is a very simple action.
No reason for Spain to be involved at all.


icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #113 on: June 01, 2013, 12:55:39 AM »

Yes Schengen ones. Police roadblocks can be put on any road anywhere including at Schengen borders.
Roadblocks ? But the carrier was walking..

Kate says in her book that before the police had arrived  (  whilst she was banging her fist on the metal  railings of the veranda )  David Payne was already remarking :

"We need roadblocks set up. The borders to Spain, Morocco and Algiers need to be alerted"

They weren't outside searching ditches and gardens looking for her  ...  they were immediately talking about Morocco and Agiers !

Yes, its that lack of empathy and understanding again.

Can you not understand that when something happens as traumatic as a child going missing people might say and do anything which might just might possibly have an effect.

Clearly you wouldn't give a damm about the borders if your child went missing. But most sane people would realise that your lack of concern is not normal.

Well,  there it is

I would have been like Holly Wells father,  who rode his bike through the streets like a madman  screaming  his little girls name out into the darkness  (  God love him ) 

I think that's  normal ...  and I am glad to differ with you in that respect

Did Jessica's father do the same  - and if not does that make him abnormal or any less caring in your opinion?

I don't know what the poor man did  ...  but my guess is that 20 minutes after he found Jessica to be missing he wasn't talking about closing the Channel Tunnel

Offline TTSOFAFM

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #114 on: June 01, 2013, 12:56:14 AM »
So Faithlily now you have read the article what are you comments about what John Stalker says about the actions of the PJ and how they mishandled the investigation and his opinion that the McCanns played no part in what happened to their daughter and how he believes Madeleine was abducted?

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #115 on: June 01, 2013, 12:58:10 AM »

What about Madeleine abducted not from bed, but from outside, searching for her parents? Is not supporting Mr and Mrs McCann also supporting the abductor ?
--------------------------------------------------

IMO she was abducted from her bed.
You're not answering...
Abduction from bed lacks forensic corroboration. Like Eddie's alerts..
For disappearance from the street there's some evidence though.

Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #116 on: June 01, 2013, 01:00:11 AM »
I think the one thing that has been shown without any doubt at all is that the incompetence of the PJ was probably a prime motivation for the McCanns and all those around them for wanting the fund to succeed.

Once the money started to flow in, it had to be dealt with.  As John McCann was being interviewed in Rothley on the very day of the launch there were people literally handing money over to him.

The McCanns and their advisers dealt with the setting up of the fund in a very professional way and left open the possible uses for the monies collected.

Having seen the way in which the PJ were going about the investigation it is not surprising that one of the potential uses was to undertake their own investigations (and yes, that was right in the earliest days). Any parent would do the same if they thought (or were being persuaded) that others could do a better job than the people currently in charge. They would owe that to their child.




Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #117 on: June 01, 2013, 01:01:34 AM »

What about Madeleine abducted not from bed, but from outside, searching for her parents? Is not supporting Mr and Mrs McCann also supporting the abductor ?
--------------------------------------------------

IMO she was abducted from her bed.
You're not answering...
Abduction from bed lacks forensic corroboration. Like Eddie's alerts..
For disappearance from the street there's some evidence though.

Oh this should be good.

Please do enlighten us as to what this evidence (or even forensic corroboration if there is any) for disappearance from the street might be. I am all ears as they say.

Clearly from your post you think it is far more convincing than anything relating to abduction from the bed.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 01:04:00 AM by gilet »

Offline gilet

Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #118 on: June 01, 2013, 01:02:42 AM »

Yes Schengen ones. Police roadblocks can be put on any road anywhere including at Schengen borders.
Roadblocks ? But the carrier was walking..

Kate says in her book that before the police had arrived  (  whilst she was banging her fist on the metal  railings of the veranda )  David Payne was already remarking :

"We need roadblocks set up. The borders to Spain, Morocco and Algiers need to be alerted"

They weren't outside searching ditches and gardens looking for her  ...  they were immediately talking about Morocco and Agiers !

Yes, its that lack of empathy and understanding again.

Can you not understand that when something happens as traumatic as a child going missing people might say and do anything which might just might possibly have an effect.

Clearly you wouldn't give a damm about the borders if your child went missing. But most sane people would realise that your lack of concern is not normal.

Well,  there it is

I would have been like Holly Wells father,  who rode his bike through the streets like a madman  screaming  his little girls name out into the darkness  (  God love him ) 

I think that's  normal ...  and I am glad to differ with you in that respect

Did Jessica's father do the same  - and if not does that make him abnormal or any less caring in your opinion?

I don't know what the poor man did  ...  but my guess is that 20 minutes after he found Jessica to be missing he wasn't talking about closing the Channel Tunnel

He wasn't in a foreign country though. No telling what effect that might have on the thought processes!

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Criticism of the Find Madeleine Fund and Review
« Reply #119 on: June 01, 2013, 01:04:57 AM »

I would have been like Holly Wells father,  who rode his bike through the streets like a madman  screaming  his little girls name out into the darkness  (  God love him ) 
How much I can identify with this poor father. It wouldn't pass my mind, sobbing, that it is empathy.