Why not report the abduction at the Tapas Bar rather than Main Reception?

[gilet]

Agreed there are three possible short cuts two of which go around or across a circular green, only Matthew and Gerry know which one they took.  The more pertinent issue for me is the claimed 8 minutes to travel this 400 metre route.  As it was an emergency Matthew probably ran most of it and got there in a couple of minutes.  Double that and add the time he was in reception and you get an all round time of about 10 minutes.  If he did the trip twice as appears then you get 20 mins.   If you then take the starting point of the discovery that Madeleine had gone at around 10.05 then Matthew must have set out shortly afterwards say at 10.10pm.  Add the time taken for the two trips and you get to 10.30 which was when Gerry claims to have gone to reception.

From this it can be seen that Matthew must have spent most of the first half hour traipsing between the apartment and the main reception.

Which is what I would presume someone would be doing if the Reception staff were not reacting. They would make a second trip to emphasise the urgency.

As regards the two options.

I remain of the opinion that the natural reaction of an English holidaymaker when abroad and having an emergency to deal with is not to go to the bar/restaurant where there is no manager or receptionist as in this case and find a waiter/chef/barman or pot boy to deal with it but to the main reception even if it was one minute further from their room/apartment than the bar.

And taking Angelo's logic the difference between the timings would not have been great.

Tapas (45 secs + 6 minutes + 45 secs) x 2 = 15 mins
Reception (2 minutes + 6 minutes + 2 minutes) x 2 = 20 mins

But allowing for the potential surprise (as attested by Anne Guedes) at any odd request and the potential language difficulties of dealing with the non-fluent English of bar/restaurant staff then I suspect the time might actually have been longer going to the Tapas.  It may indeed have taken that extra five minutes or so to make themselves clear and to explain the situation.

Plus there is the possibility that the McCanns and their friends were not even certain the Tapas had a direct line which could be used to make calls outside the complex. Many such ancillary sites in resort complexes only have telephones from which calls have to be directed via reception or the possibility of misuse would be too great.

And then would the McCanns and their friends have been certain that there would have been staff there?

I wonder at what time the Tapas staff knocked off from their duties for the night on that particular night?

I understand the McCanns were the last to dine there. They all left (except Diane) at 10.00. How long did she remain?

What did the Tapas staff then do? Were they still in the restaurant/kitchen or did they join in the search?

Would the McCanns or Matthew have even been certain to find someone/anyone present at the bar/restaurant by 10.20 or might they have been scouring the area round the pool/miniclub?



One last thought. Can someone enlighten me as to what this thread is supposed to achieve? We already know the choice that was made. There are perfectly valid reasons why the McCanns and Matthew would use Reception. What is the purpose of proving (even if that were possible) that a couple of minutes could have been shaved off the time involved? Will that help indicate something important in relation to what happened to Madeleine McCann and if so what is that something important?

[Angelo222]

I cannot fathom why Matthew and Gerry spent so much time literally running up and down to main reception which was a quarter of a mile away when someone in authority at the tapas bar/restaurant could have easily relayed matters to main reception by phone??

Who do you think was in authority?

The chef, the barman or the waiter?

Remember the McCanns were the last customers at the Tapas.

There might have been a pot boy there doing the washing up of course.

Certainly there was someone in charge at the tapas/restaurant/crèche.  My point was and still is that whoever that person in charge was should have taken overall control until the hotel manager and the resort manager arrived.  That would have allowed Matthew to concentrate on the search and saved valuable minutes which were otherwise lost.  The fact that this did not happen says much for Mark Warner management.

[gilet]

So please tell me who was in charge. Was it the barman, the chef or the waiter? Or was there someone else present. If so please indicate who and give us the evidence.

I have read the translations and the statements. Your comment is quite interesting. This was not a hotel as most people are aware.


 

[Redblossom]

there were at least three barmen/waiters at the Tapas at the time and the supervisor of the tapas complex also got there around 10 to 10 30

One of them, Joe had spoken to Matt and Dave when they were searching,and found out what happened, he then went to the Tapas restaraunt and told Ricardo what was going on and suggested he ring reception to ask them to call the police which he did, whether the Tapas staff took it on themselves or whether Matt possibly suggested they do is unclear

The restaraunt was open till around midnight every night and the Mccanns were not the last diners, the Sperreys were


I also doubt that waiters and barmen employed in a holiday resort mainly of Brits would not speak English and I also doubt the restaraunt had no landline phone

All waiter and barmen,and other staff statements can be found on mccannpjfiles under the tag Tapas employees, under the section called english translations
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm

[Angelo222]

Red>>   Some of them were English but had Portuguese parentage so probably could speak the lingo well enough to phone the cops.  Joe was such a person and later returned to the UK.  Joe (Jeronimo) asked Ricardo to call the police.

[Redblossom]

Red>>   Some of them were English but had Portuguese parents so probably could speak the lingo well enough to phone the cops.  Joe was such a person and later returned to the UK.  Joe (Jeronimo) asked Ricardo to call the police.

Yes, thank you, and Im sure as in many countries english is taught at schools too, its THE mainly international language

[Mrs. B]

Somebody did call reception from the Tapas bar, whether this was on the request of the group or an initiative they took themselves, isn't clear.

[AnneGuedes]

Ricardo, end of September, states he doesn't remember, may be may be not. Joe asked him to call. Why didn't Joe call himself ? This proxy behaviour is as generalized as extraordinary.
In any case, let's suppose Ricardo, on Joe's solicitation, called the main reception, the receptionist stated he called immediately but he didn't, according to the register.
What can we deduce from this that could contribute to explain what happened to Madeleine ? Not much I'm afraid.

[icabodcrane]

The reason I posted yesterday, the map which has been reposted above was to highlight how ludicrous the claim was that it would take Matthew eight minutes to go to the OC Club 24 hr Reception



 

The reality is that such a run/jog or even fast walk would not take eight minutes or anything like eight minutes for a fit person.  It would take between one and two minutes (especially with so much of it being quite steeply downhill)

 

Just to point out that the fastest a distance of 400 metres has ever been covered is 44.18 seconds  ...  the world record held by American Michael Johnson

Johnson was sprinting with no obstacles or corners to turn ...  not to mention that he was  an athlete at the peak of his fitness ...  and it took him  almost a minute

I think the timings being assumed here should be reviewed in light of that

[AnneGuedes]

I actually went down the route to where she would have gone for Nursery drop off, to the main reception essentially, looking for her at that time
That's what I tried to copy... There are many bushes and at the bottom 3 possible narrow paths. It took me 8 minutes.

[Redblossom]

Just to point out that the fastest a distance of 400 metres has ever been covered is 44.18 seconds  ...  the world record held by American Michael Johnson

Johnson was sprinting with no obstacles or corners to turn ...  not to mention that he was  an athlete at the peak of his fitness ...  and it took him  almost a minute

I think the timings being assumed here should be reviewed in light of that

LOL  good point

[gilet]

Just to point out that the fastest a distance of 400 metres has ever been covered is 44.18 seconds  ...  the world record held by American Michael Johnson

Johnson was sprinting with no obstacles or corners to turn ...  not to mention that he was  an athlete at the peak of his fitness ...  and it took him  almost a minute

I think the timings being assumed here should be reviewed in light of that

Not really. Before I posted the figure of 2 minutes I did some research online and it is in fact very generous. 

Remember that the distance is actually not 400 metres but around 350 by the main road and 320 metres by the shortcuts.

Also remember that the route is over a significant part quite steeply downhill unlike a running track.

Thirdly, remember that Matthew was a fit individual used to regular exercise.

And finally look at these pages.

http://training.runinthesun.com/veterans_training.asp

http://www.menshealth.com/deltafit/400-meter-challenge

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4427723

I prefer to have evidence for my posts rather than speculate.

Is there any evidence which suggests 2 minutes downhill for a distance of 350 metres is in fact excessive for a fit person?

[gilet]

LOL  good point

It isn't a very good point though. It is just speculation without evidence.

There is evidence in the post above which shows that 350 metres in 2 minutes is perfectly possible for a fit person such as Matthew.

[gilet]

I actually went down the route to where she would have gone for Nursery drop off, to the main reception essentially, looking for her at that time
That's what I tried to copy... There are many bushes and at the bottom 3 possible narrow paths. It took me 8 minutes.

People can run/jog and look at the same time.  The time of 2 minutes to cover that distance by a fit man is perfectly possible as evidenced in the post above.  8 minutes is quite ludicrous for someone who was clearly in a hurry.

[sadie]

I cannot fathom why Matthew and Gerry spent so much time literally running up and down to main reception which was a quarter of a mile away when someone in authority at the tapas bar/restaurant could have easily relayed matters to main reception by phone??

This is being picky, but I think that it is important that we get the distances right, otherwise the wrong distance will become a myth. 

It was less than 275 yards by my measurements, and that is less than one sixth of a mile

ie less than a third of a mile there and back


Sorry to be so picky, but until I pointed out that measureing could be done using GE it was blatently lied by [ censored word] that the distance of the tapas from 5A was anything up to about 250 yards, whereas it is only about 50metres crow flies and 75 metres on foot. 

Even Kate got the distance wrong in her book cos there had been so much talk exagerating the distance that seemingly she believed it.