Why not report the abduction at the Tapas Bar rather than Main Reception?

[Mrs. B]

I think I'm really hallucinating ! A little girl's lost, might be harmed, might suffer, surely wants her mummy. Every preoccupation one can have vanishes in a nutshell. Enemies unite, only one thing counts : find her !

Please elaborate, who's the "enemy" in your scenario?

[gilet]

It was not *a bar* or any unconnected place, to management, it was pretty much the hub of the resort, the staff at the tapas  would have been able to alert management much quicker than running down there, or prewarn them, staff and supervisors they will have been aware of all week, to suggest none of them spoke english is preposterous, in fact they did and they rang reception as well as alert the millenium restauarant so staff there could join in the search

The bar/restaurant was simply that. Either offer some actual evidence of that absurd claim or it will be seen to be nothing but an unevidenced opinion.

The Reception was the hub of the resort as evidenced by the presence of 24 hour reception, management, offices and other facilities.

The McCanns and their friends could NOT know with any certainty that they would find anyone who could speak English at the Tapas (if such a person had been on duty he may have left, joined the search etc) whereas they did know for certain that a speaker of English was available about a minute further away at Reception.

There is no evidence that the McCanns or their friends were aware that there was a phone with a direct line at the Tapas Bar. As part of the Resort complex it may have been on a central switchboard with that located at Reception.

[gilet]

I think I'm really hallucinating ! A little girl's lost, might be harmed, might suffer, surely wants her mummy. Every preoccupation one can have vanishes in a nutshell. Enemies unite, only one thing counts : find her !

Enemies? Yes you are probably hallucinating unless you can explain the enemies.

[gilet]

This thread is very Amaralian in its aims. It follows the same line of Inquiry which he followed.

The aim which the Anti-McCanns are currently failing to achieve is to show without doubt that the McCanns and their friends deliberately chose to waste a couple of minutes in the search for Madeleine.

These were the two options the McCanns had.

They could go to the Main Reception where as guests of the OC resort they would believe that they would be met by a trained person who spoke fluent English, had a direct outside line and knew the company procedures for missing children and would immediately put them into practice. Anyone who has stayed in a hotel (which this was not) or a resort complex would know that it is the normal place to go in emergencies.

Or they could save approximately one minute and go to the Tapas Bar where they could not know with any certainty who might be there, whether there was in fact a direct line or they would have to be put through reception anyway, whether the people there would have had any training in missing child procedures, or whether the people still there (if any) would have fluent English.

The argument the anti McCanns are trying to make given these options is that the McCanns and Matthew and possibly others among the friends MUST have known that it was BETTER to go to the Tapas bar and consult a waiter/chef/barman to make contact with the Police.

Personally, I think such a suggestion is absurd. But if some evidence had shown it to be true then I would have accepted that. However no evidence has proven it to be true.

But what was the point the Anti McCanns were attempting to make in trying to prove it true?

Of course it would have led in its Amaralian way to the McCanns and the Tapas group.

The only purpose I can see in trying to establish that there was a slight delay deliberately introduced into the timeline by choosing Reception when (according to the Anti McCanns the McCanns and their friends MUST have known the Tapas Bar was a better option is to try and insinuate that they were deliberately damaging the search for their own child.

If anyone can suggest another motive for this thread I would be pleased to read it.

And if anyone can actually provide evidence that the McCanns and their friends did something wrong by choosing to go to Reception rather than consult with whoever might have been left at the Tapas Bar then I would be pleased to see that as well. So far no such evidence has emerged.

[gilet]

Yes, they did do that and in Matthews own words the response was...

...it was surreal when you got there, I said, you've got to phone the Police, you know, a child's been taken, and they went, oh no, she's probably just sort of woken up and he thought she's probably sort of wandered off or something like that and you thought, yeah, maybe you're right, maybe you're right, erm, can you please, it was sort of, it was kind of, it was sort a weird kind of lack of urgency, you know, he'd ring, but you had to sort and stand there and say, ring now, ring now, so I don't know if they rang at that point, but certainly, erm, you know, I certainly asked them to,...

So much for going to reception!

Indeed it seems to have been a fairly lacklustre response.

But the crucial thing in regard to this thread is that it was not possible for Matthew to know that the particular member of staff would react in that way.

That reaction would not have been factored in to the decision to go to Reception.

[Redblossom]

The tapas resort should have been  the first port of call, even if on their way to main reception  miles away

[sadie]

This thread is very Amaralian in its aims. It follows the same line of Inquiry which he followed.

The aim which the Anti-McCanns are currently failing to achieve is to show without doubt that the McCanns and their friends deliberately chose to waste a couple of minutes in the search for Madeleine.

These were the two options the McCanns had.

They could go to the Main Reception where as guests of the OC resort they would believe that they would be met by a trained person who spoke fluent English, had a direct outside line and knew the company procedures for missing children and would immediately put them into practice. Anyone who has stayed in a hotel (which this was not) or a resort complex would know that it is the normal place to go in emergencies.

Or they could save approximately one minute and go to the Tapas Bar where they could not know with any certainty who might be there, whether there was in fact a direct line or they would have to be put through reception anyway, whether the people there would have had any training in missing child procedures, or whether the people still there (if any) would have fluent English.

The argument the anti McCanns are trying to make given these options is that the McCanns and Matthew and possibly others among the friends MUST have known that it was BETTER to go to the Tapas bar and consult a waiter/chef/barman to make contact with the Police.

Personally, I think such a suggestion is absurd. But if some evidence had shown it to be true then I would have accepted that. However no evidence has proven it to be true.

But what was the point the Anti McCanns were attempting to make in trying to prove it true?

Of course it would have led in its Amaralian way to the McCanns and the Tapas group.

The only purpose I can see in trying to establish that there was a slight delay deliberately introduced into the timeline by choosing Reception when (according to the Anti McCanns the McCanns and their friends MUST have known the Tapas Bar was a better option is to try and insinuate that they were deliberately damaging the search for their own child.

If anyone can suggest another motive for this thread I would be pleased to read it.

And if anyone can actually provide evidence that the McCanns and their friends did something wrong by choosing to go to Reception rather than consult with whoever might have been left at the Tapas Bar then I would be pleased to see that as well. So far no such evidence has emerged.

 

[gilet]

The tapas resort should have been  the first port of call, even if on their way to main reception  miles away

Are you really so lacking in knowledge about this case as to think the Tapas area, the small area surrounded by the wall containing a bar, two pools, the laundry and one of the miniclubs is a RESORT?

The Ocean Club Resort of which the Tapas enclosure is a tiny part stretches across almost the whole of the town of Praia da Luz?

There was no manangement, no office at the Tapas Bar area.

The Resort Reception was where Matthew chose to go for what appear to me to be very, very sensible reasons.

And as for your lie that the Reception of the resort was "miles away", well that really scuppers your argument doesn't it and shows up either your lack of knowledge or your inability to post accurately.  Have you not even bothered to read the facts presented and confirmed by the Senior Editor in this thread or have you simply chosen to ignore them and post a lie?

It was just less than 180 metres further than the bar where you are claiming Matthew should have gone. A matter of one minute or so on foot.

[Redblossom]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz at amaralian  LOL  a new pro language in the making nite nite
 


Desperate people clutch at straws
 Toodles

[gilet]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz at amaralian  LOL  a new pro language in the making nite nite
 


Desperate people clutch at straws
 Toodles

So you have no answers.
Why am I not surprised that your only retort is abuse as usual?

I think people reading here will realise there is absolutely no desperation in my post whereas your lack of any coherent response and resorting to abuse is a clear sign of desperation on your part.  Your indication of boredom at posts which are longer than a few words might be an indication as to why your grasp of the basics of the case is not particularly good. That one about reception being miles away was a classic.

My post is logical, looks at the options soberly and asks relevant questions.
What does your post do? Ah, yes, it attempts to mock and shows that you consider this debate just a funny game.

Readers can decide who is seeking truth and who is not for themselves.

[gilet]

This question has been posed by another poster earlier in the thread, twice I believe.

But for the benefit of the casual reader it is worth highlighting again.


When on holiday in a resort or hotel and you have a serious emergency, do you normally choose to deal with that emergency with a barman or waiter or do you go directly to Reception?

That is the crux of this thread.

Anti McCann posters are suggesting that it was utterly abnormal that Matthew should have chosen to head directly to Reception a mere 180 metres further away, rather than deal with a waiter or barman. They are implying that this was done deliberately to damage the search for Madeleine.

What do you think?

[John]

What was the serious emergency exactly?   Nobody knew for sure what was going on when Matthew was sent on a wild goose chase all over Praia da Luz. 

He was sent to main reception in the dark to phone the police, it didn't happen, he make the trek to the Millennium Restaurant to see if she was there when they had already been notified by a member of staff and then he had to go back down to the reception again to ask that they call police again...but all the while all they had to do was to ask Jo who spoke perfect English and Portuguese and was more than willing to help BUT nobody bothered to ask him.

The suggestion that the tapas-9 couldn't be sure if anyone within the bar/restaurant spoke English is complete nonsense.  Jo served them at the tables and in the bar nightly, he even met then during the day and could speak English perfectly.  Jo was there when it all kicked off, he heard Kate scream from the balcony.  He took part in searches.

The evidence from the staff reveals a situation of utter chaos.  Going down to reception never achieved anything in the beginning.  The receptionist simply ignored Matthew and more or less told him to go back up to Ocean Club Garden and search a while longer.  It wasn't until the resort manager John Hill arrived and got involved after 10.40pm that the police were called from reception.

Had they bothered to speak to the tapas crew they could have had the police on site much earlier.  As it was even Jo is on record as stating he didn't know who telephoned the police because they simply weren't kept in the loop.

All that time wasted allowed the abductors to get clean away.

[AnneGuedes]

Please elaborate, who's the "enemy" in your scenario?

A scenario ? I find it common sense to concentrate on a lost little girl.
Adversaries, opponents... People who dislike each other forget it in a case like this one.

[icabodcrane]

What was the serious emergency exactly?   Nobody knew for sure what was going on when Matthew was sent on a wild goose chase all over Praia da Luz. 

He was sent to main reception in the dark to phone the police, it didn't happen, he make the trek to the Millennium Restaurant to see if she was there when they had already been notified by a member of staff and then he had to go back down to the reception again to ask that they call police again...but all the while all they had to do was to ask Jo who spoke perfect English and Portuguese and was more than willing to help BUT nobody bothered to ask him.

The suggestion that the tapas-9 couldn't be sure if anyone within the bar/restaurant spoke English is complete nonsense.  Jo served them at the tables and in the bar nightly, he even met then during the day and could speak English perfectly.  Jo was there when it all kicked off, he heard Kate scream from the balcony.  He took part in searches.

The evidence from the staff reveals a situation of utter chaos.  Going down to reception never achieved anything in the beginning.  The receptionist simply ignored Matthew and more or less told him to go back up to Ocean Club Garden and search a while longer.  It wasn't until the resort manager John Hill arrived and got involved after 10.40pm that the police were called from reception.

Had they bothered to speak to the tapas crew they could have had the police on site much earlier.  As it was even Jo is on record as stating he didn't know who telephoned the police because they simply weren't kept in the loop.

All that time wasted allowed the abductors to get clean away.

I can't see  anything in your post to disagree with

Congratulations John ...  I know you  ( like me )  have not followed this case with the same  devotion as  some posters  here, but you have gotten up to speed remarkably well   

[gilet]

What was the serious emergency exactly?   Nobody knew for sure what was going on when Matthew was sent on a wild goose chase all over Praia da Luz. 

No-one knew exactly what was going on but they DID KNOW THAT A LITTLE GIRL WAS MISSING AND WERE TRYING TO INVOLVE THE POLICE IN THE SEARCH FOR HER.   Personally I think your description of Matthew's involvement as a "wild goose chase" is rather crass.

He was sent to main reception in the dark to phone the police, it didn't happen, he make the trek to the Millennium Restaurant to see if she was there when they had already been notified by a member of staff and then he had to go back down to the reception again to ask that they call police again...but all the while all they had to do was to ask Jo who spoke perfect English and Portuguese and was more than willing to help BUT nobody bothered to ask him.

It was not Matthew's fault that the calling of the police did not happen.
Was he aware that Millennium had already been notified or was it simply a sensible move on his part to include that venue within the immediate search?

Was he aware that this "Jo" was actually available in the Tapas area? He had not been when they were last there had he, so how would Matthew know he had turned up? Please explain how he had been informed that "Jo" was now present and available?

The suggestion that the tapas-9 couldn't be sure if anyone within the bar/restaurant spoke English is complete nonsense.  Jo served them at the tables and in the bar nightly, he even met then during the day and could speak English perfectly.  Jo was there when it all kicked off, he heard Kate scream from the balcony.  He took part in searches.

But they could not be sure he was there could they? Whereas they knew with certainty there were people at Reception and it is not Matthew's fault that the people whose duty it was to deal with the situation were in fact incompetent.

The evidence from the staff reveals a situation of utter chaos.  Going down to reception never achieved anything in the beginning.  The receptionist simply ignored Matthew and more or less told him to go back up to Ocean Club Garden and search a while longer.  It wasn't until the resort manager John Hill arrived and got involved after 10.40pm that the police were called from reception.

Of course, it was utter chaos. A child was missing and people were panicking. Do you think that everyone would have been walking around and being utterly calm? Do you think that people were making carefully plans regarding their actions or do you think they were making the best decisions they could in the circumstances and relying on the fact that Reception is the place where you are advised (in all resorts I have been in) to take your problems?

Had they bothered to speak to the tapas crew they could have had the police on site much earlier.  As it was even Jo is on record as stating he didn't know who telephoned the police because they simply weren't kept in the loop.

Firstly when they left the Tapas Jeronimo had himself left the area. They were not to know that he was merely elsewhere in another part of the restaurant and would return. When he returned he noticed Diane was alone.

Secondly had they returned they probably would NOT have found Jeronimo there as he was on his way to Reception which even HE knew was the place where things were organised.

At the point I left the Tapas I heard a scream from a woman I did not know. I do not know who screamed, but I had never heard a similar cry. I cannot even describe it but thought it had come from the child's mother. I went to the reception with one of the child care workers whose name I do not remember. One of the employees looked to be organizing the searches and told us the name of the child. We were sent to the beach zone and looked in all the alleys and called out the name of the child but did not find her. Later, we returned to the Tapas where we found John, the Manager of Mark Warner.

All that time wasted allowed the abductors to get clean away.

With hindsight there may have been wasted time. Largely that was the fault of the individual at the OC reception who appears to have been pretty incompetent. But hindsight is a wonderful thing, not actually available to individuals in the midst of a traumatic child disappearance.

My response is in Blue.