The question of sedation

[Benice]

Quote from Kate's  book - about the morning of the 3rd.
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The only other unexplained detail I remember from that morning was a large, brown stain I noticed on Madeleine's pink Eeyore pajama top.  I couldn't recall seeing it the night before and I had no idea how it might have got there.   It looked like a tea stain.  Gerry and I do drink quite a bit of tea, and Madeleine too, would have the odd small cup.  So at the time I just assumed it was a drink spillage that had escaped our attention, and that might well be all it was.  But now of course we can no longer make assumptions about anything that can't be accounted for.

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[icabodcrane]

this thread is with regard to an abductor,  and how sedation might  have been used by him

An important topic, for sure. I have some difficulty to imagine how Madeleine was technically sedated. Chloroform or ether ? Then inhalation, injection ? It's not as quick as in Tintin where chloroformed ones fall like flies ! How long would it take to have a child unconscious during at least one hour ? And what kind of device ?

Anne, it is really quick.  Rather horrid but soon over, believe me.

How quick sadie  ?

Very very quick.  just long enough to smell the damned stuf and think "Oh gawd" and you are gone.

How long does it have effect sadie ?  ...  and is it usual for people to  wake with no apparent side-effects ?

The reason I ask is, the twins slept heavily throughout the mayhem in the apartment that night,  but when they were woken to go to another apartment they did not display any ill-effects  ...  would that be normal  ?

[AnneGuedes]

The reason I ask is, the twins slept heavily throughout the mayhem in the apartment that night,  but when they were woken to go to another apartment they did not display any ill-effects  ...  would that be normal  ?

I think they didn't wake up when they were carried to another flat. Many found it strange, but likely found it was better this way. I've never seen comment about the way they woke up the following morning.

[Matthew Wyse]

The children were most probably tired out from the daily exertions which would have been somewhat different from that in Rothley.   This combined with the climate which the children weren't used to would have had a tiring effect on them all.

[sadie]

Icabod, I have my appendicitis operation under chloroform , I think and another operation Tonsils and Adenoids but I was only 6 or 7 for both these ops.


How long do these ops take?  I dont know and maybe the chloroform was readministered?  Dunno.


I do know that I was in hospital several times longer than a patient would be today.  I think over 2 weeks for appendicitis and off school for several weeks.  About 6 weeks in all, i think.


But I was very young, could be a little off mark.


Have also had dental work done under chloroform.  I think it is tricky to administer correctly.  A doctor was with the dentist whilst it was done.  Awful chemical smell.



I favour the likelyhood that all three were given sweeties, or hot chocolate say, with a milder sedative hidden within at, or before, tea time.  They were too tired to go and play as usual.



About feeling unwell afterwards, I cant really remember but I fancy that I vomitted a bit.




Sorry but I have to go now.  Hubby is hungry !  LOL

And then we have a motorway journey.  Might be here to give my chloroform impressions later if wanted.

[Redblossom]

The reason I ask is, the twins slept heavily throughout the mayhem in the apartment that night,  but when they were woken to go to another apartment they did not display any ill-effects  ...  would that be normal  ?

I think they didn't wake up when they were carried to another flat. Many found it strange, but likely found it was better this way. I've never seen comment about the way they woke up the following morning.

KM n her book says at first light she and GM went out searching for at least an hour and on their return to FPs flat the twins were up and about playing

In answer to the OP, its entirely probably that Madeleine might be sedated if she was taken, even by car, for sure if being carried around the streets of PDL, and especially if an hour or so later than the assumed 9.15 time

I do not think that any abductor would do any dry run and sedate her the night before, neither makes sense, and even less, someone doing this on the Thursday during the day

I also do not believe the twins were sedated by any abdudtor,  there would be no point JMHO

Certainly certain questions arise, one being why, in KMs own words she was checking the twins for signs of life and thnkng they had been drugged did she not arrange for them to be taken to a hospital

[icabodcrane]

Icabod, I have my appendicitis operation under chloroform , I think and another operation Tonsils and Adenoids but I was only 6 or 7 for both these ops.


How long do these ops take?  I dont know and maybe the chloroform was readministered?  Dunno.


I do know that I was in hospital several times longer than a patient would be today.  I think over 2 weeks for appendicitis and off school for several weeks.  About 6 weeks in all, i think.


But I was very young, could be a little off mark.


Have also had dental work done under chloroform.  I think it is tricky to administer correctly.  A doctor was with the dentist whilst it was done.  Awful chemical smell.



I favour the likelyhood that all three were given sweeties, or hot chocolate say, with a milder sedative hidden within at, or before, tea time.  They were too tired to go and play as usual.



About feeling unwell afterwards, I cant really remember but I fancy that I vomitted a bit.




Sorry but I have to go now.  Hubby is hungry !  LOL

And then we have a motorway journey.  Might be here to give my chloroform impressions later if wanted.

Thanks sadie

I remember times at the dentist  and a broken arm once  ...  I was always sick from effects of the anaesthetic too

[amaraltheofficeboy]

Witness Statement Statement by Jim McGarvey

In relation to the above I would like to mention that at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers. We were asked several times during this meeting about questions that Gerald and Kate would like to have followed up and responded to by the PJ.

I remember that during the meetings, Kate revealed that Madeleine had spoken with her in the morning of her disappearance and said that she remembered the twins had cried during the night and that she wanted to know why neither her mother or father had appeared. Kate asked herself whether this fact could have any relation with Madeleine’s disappearance.
Gerry and Kate also questioned whether there was any suggestion that pointed to the use of drugs to facilitate Madeleine’s abduction.

This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my knowledge.

[amaraltheofficeboy]

so on 5th May the Mccanns wanted to English communication officer to ask the PJ about the possibility of drugs being used.

[Matthew Wyse]

There is ever chance that the abductor used a small swab of cotton wool and some chloroform as it is very simple to make at home.   

[amaraltheofficeboy]

so on 5th May the Mccanns wanted to English communication officer to ask the PJ about the possibility of drugs being used.

is there anything in the files to indicate what action the PJ took?

[amaraltheofficeboy]

It has been suggested by the McCanns themselves that all three children had been sedated on the night Madeleine went missing

That raises quite a few questions  ( some of which are being discussed on another thread )

I think it is worthy of a thread of it's own though,  especially given that Kate,   a qualified aneasthetist,  wondered if Madeleine's excessive tiredness on that last evening was because she had been sedated sometime during the day, or even the night before

Do members agree with Kate,  and think that is a possibility ?  ...  or do most people think the abductor sedated all three children whilst in the act of taking Madeleine ?   ( or even that  the children were unlikely to have been sedated at all   )

as the Mccanns raised this officially with the Police on 5th May - where is the Police report about this matter?

[Matthew Wyse]

Parents know about these things.

[amaraltheofficeboy]

Parents may well query these things but apparently the Police in charge didn't do anything about it.

[Redblossom]

Parents may well query these things but apparently the Police in charge didn't do anything about it.

Were they asked to? if so, who by? And where is the evidence they were.