Author Topic: Ricardo Paiva, "Kate McCann had a dream where she saw Maddie on a hillside"  (Read 137339 times)

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Offline Wonderfulspam

This is what Kate McCann says about that phone call she made to Ricardo Paiva in late July  (  whilst Gerry was in Washington  )  ; 

"That evening I phoned Ricardo Paiva to ask for his help with a couple of letters I needed to have translated.  He sounded strange, distant; certainly not his usual self.  He mentioned the forthcoming ground search, adding that Encarnacao wanted to talk to us before it began.  I distinctly remember him saying,  'Our investigation will be changing direction'. Danie Krugel's report had given them a bit of a jolt, he told me"

It should be noted that when Kate wrote the above,  Ricardo Paiva had  already  told a court  that during that  phone call from Kate she had told him about her  'bad dream'  ...  yet she makes no reference to it and offers no denial

This is what Ricardo Paiva said about the call ;

"Kate called me, she was alone as Gerry was away,  and she was crying"

Thanks for that.

I've never read Kate's book, I'm not sure I could get through the whole thing without losing the will to live.

Interesting that she neither confirms nor denies.

Well, it appears the Sun have taken as read that Kate had said what Paiva said, and inferred from it that Maddie was dead.
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Offline Mr Gray

So hideho made a video to highlight Gerry's lie but she was lying herself

Offline Wonderfulspam


What reason did Gerry have to deny Kate dreaming Maddie was 'buried' , when in court that day Paiva apparently said 'on' ?

“She said she had dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that we should search for her there.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/portugal/6977977/Madeleine-McCann-mothers-dream-was-turning-point-in-investigation-court-hears.html
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Offline Benice

This is what Kate McCann says about that phone call she made to Ricardo Paiva in late July  (  whilst Gerry was in Washington  )  ; 

"That evening I phoned Ricardo Paiva to ask for his help with a couple of letters I needed to have translated.  He sounded strange, distant; certainly not his usual self.  He mentioned the forthcoming ground search, adding that Encarnacao wanted to talk to us before it began.  I distinctly remember him saying, 'Our investigation will be changing direction'. Danie Krugel's report had given them a bit of a jolt, he told me"

It should be noted that when Kate wrote the above,  Ricardo Paiva had  already  told a court that during that  phone call from Kate she had told him about her  'bad dream'  ...  yet she makes no reference to it and offers no denial

This is what Ricardo Paiva said about the call ;

"Kate called me, she was alone as Gerry was away,  and she was crying"

I disagree that Paiva and Kate were both talking about the same phone call.

It seems obvious to me that the phone call Kate describes in her book is not the call she made to Paiva about the dream which it also pretty obvious took place before the one she describes about ringing him for help over letters.

IMO This is borne out by the fact that Paiva said to her .... ''our investigation WILL be changing direction'' ....which proves that the phone call about the dream had already taken place on a previous night and  - and having been discussed with the PJ team - was the reason for that 'change in direction he mentions to her.   But rather than reveal to Kate that it was her dream which had caused this change in direction - he told her it was related to the Krugel report.  IMO

IOW There were two separate phone calls made on different nights.   One from a distraught Kate telling him about her dream when she was crying, - and the other when she rang him requesting help with letter translation.




The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline jassi

What reason did Gerry have to deny Kate dreaming Maddie was 'buried' , when in court that day Paiva apparently said 'on' ?

“She said she had dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that we should search for her there.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/portugal/6977977/Madeleine-McCann-mothers-dream-was-turning-point-in-investigation-court-hears.html

How would he know one way or the other ? Wasn't he in Washington ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Benice

How would he know one way or the other ? Wasn't he in Washington ?

Kate told him?
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline jassi

Kate told him?

You mean she told him that she didn't have a dream?  Why should she do that ? And how would he know for sure that that was the truth?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pegasus

... It seems obvious to me that the phone call Kate describes in her book is not the call she made to Paiva about the dream which it also pretty obvious took place before the one she describes about ringing him for help over letters ...
I agree, two different calls.

Offline pegasus

It seems likely that Paiva did recieve a phonecall about the dream.
The imagery of laying on a hillside occurs both in what Paiva reportedly claimed he was told in a phonecall about the dream, and in a description of a mental image (with no associated phonecall mentioned) in KM's book IIRC but I need to check I might have it wrong?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 09:08:35 PM by pegasus »

Offline Benice

You mean she told him that she didn't have a dream?  Why should she do that ? And how would he know for sure that that was the truth?

IMO She would naturally tell Gerry about her dream, which did not include anything about Madeleine being dead or buried anywhere.       Paivo's statement - in which even he didn't claim Kate had told him Madeleine was dead and buried on a hillside - has been turned into a load of disinformation by 'sceptics' -  an example of which which was posted on here a while back.

Quote from: Luz on Today at 12:23:51 AM
snipped

In fact it was Ricardo Paiva who first was called by Mrs. McCann about the dream where she saw her daughter dead and insisted she was buried in a certain spot in Praia da Luz....
Unquote

Totally untrue - as Gerry was pointing out to the Press.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Wonderfulspam

IMO She would naturally tell Gerry about her dream, which did not include anything about Madeleine being dead or buried anywhere.       Paivo's statement - in which even he didn't claim Kate had told him Madeleine was dead and buried on a hillside - has been turned into a load of disinformation by 'sceptics' -  an example of which which was posted on here a while back.

Quote from: Luz on Today at 12:23:51 AM
snipped

In fact it was Ricardo Paiva who first was called by Mrs. McCann about the dream where she saw her daughter dead and insisted she was buried in a certain spot in Praia da Luz....
Unquote

Totally untrue - as Gerry was pointing out to the Press.

So, Mr Paiva didn't say 'buried' , Kate apparently hadn't said 'buried' , no one said 'buried', yet Mr McCann came out of court & denied Kate dreaming Maddie was 'buried'.

One can only wonder then, why Mr McCann had burial on his mind, when no one else had mentioned 'burial' in the first instance. 
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Offline pegasus

Well if Paiva invented it he was very lucky to happen to invent imagery which was much later described IMO in the book IIRC. I do not have book here now so I can't post the relevant text and I might be wrong but IIRC it is there.. BTW IMO the witness is 100% innocent and having a dream like this is IMO a natural thing to happen, and for peeps to turn it into some sort of confession is very incorrect logic IMO.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Well if Paiva invented it he was very lucky to happen to invent imagery which was much later described IMO in the book IIRC. I do not have book here now so I can't post the relevant text and I might be wrong but IIRC it is there.. BTW IMO the witness is 100% innocent and having a dream like this is IMO a natural thing to happen, and for peeps to turn it into some sort of confession is very incorrect logic IMO.

I haven't suggested Paiva invented this dream.

It's the 'buried' bit that's in question.

It seems the only person to say 'buried' at any point was Mr McCann.
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Offline Anna

Well if Paiva invented it he was very lucky to happen to invent imagery which was much later described IMO in the book IIRC. I do not have book here now so I can't post the relevant text and I might be wrong but IIRC it is there.. BTW IMO the witness is 100% innocent and having a dream like this is IMO a natural thing to happen, and for peeps to turn it into some sort of confession is very incorrect logic IMO.

I haven't got the book, but this is from the book I believe
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Cariad

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Well if Paiva invented it he was very lucky to happen to invent imagery which was much later described IMO in the book IIRC. I do not have book here now so I can't post the relevant text and I might be wrong but IIRC it is there.. BTW IMO the witness is 100% innocent and having a dream like this is IMO a natural thing to happen, and for peeps to turn it into some sort of confession is very incorrect logic IMO.

It's Sadie and Benice isn't it? Go on, say I've got it!

Wait a minute.... that post was a parody mush up of two forum members here wasn't it?