Ricardo Paiva, "Kate McCann had a dream where she saw Maddie on a hillside"

[AnneGuedes]

Magalhães e Menezes relates clearly the dogs' alerts to the statute of arguido.
No mention of any dream. And, to go further on the topic of the irrational,  the PJ wasn't responsible for the contribution of the missing persons hunter, who was nevertheless treated with civility.

[icabodcrane]

I don't understand why you don't find it understandable.  This dream seemed to be THE determining factor in the PJ  deciding that the McCanns were guilty according to Paiva and yet you don't think it in any way significant that having just heard this in court that Gerry would be moved to comment on it?  Why not?  Why are you not MORE concerned by the fact that the PJ's strategy to build a case against the McCanns appears to have been built on the back of this dream?

I don't think the dream is significant in any evidential way     ...  because Kate  dreamed  that Madeleine was dead has no bearing at all on whether she actually was or not

If Gerry felt compelled to comment then he might have  stressed that point, rather than lend weight to the suggestion that Kate's dream was signicant by strenuously denying it had  ever happened

[ferryman]

Magalhães e Menezes relates clearly the dogs' alerts to the statute of arguido.
No mention of any dream. And, to go further on the topic of the irrational,  the PJ wasn't responsible for the contribution of the missing persons hunter, who was nevertheless treated with civility.

Take away the dog alerts (which was nothing!) and there was, well, nothing ...

[DCI]

I don't think the dream is significant in any evidential way     ...  because Kate  dreamed  that Madeleine was dead has no bearing at all on whether she actually was or not

If Gerry felt compelled to comment then he might have  stressed that point, rather than lend weight to the suggestion that Kate's dream was signicant by strenuously denying it had  ever happened

Kate didn't have a dream, Madeleine was dead. Or is Paiva lying?

Martha's quote.

Paiva's own words:

"She said she had dreamt that Madeleine was on a hill and that we should search for her there".

"She gave the impression that Madeleine was dead"

So - no mention by Kate of Madeleine being buried and only Paiva's assumption that Kate was referring to a dead Madeleine.  And we have to have a whole thread devoted to impugning the McCanns once more based on these crumbs?

[faithlilly]

I don't think the dream is significant in any evidential way     ...  because Kate  dreamed  that Madeleine was dead has no bearing at all on whether she actually was or not

If Gerry felt compelled to comment then he might have  stressed that point, rather than lend weight to the suggestion that Kate's dream was signicant by strenuously denying it had  ever happened

I have to agree icabod. If Gerry had said Kate had had dreams like this before and, although distressing, were to be expected, it would have garnered public sympathy. It is his denial in the face of overwhelming evidence that raises questions.

[Redblossom]

It seems that a lot of people have had dreams in the Madeleine disappearance case.  Didn't they spend oodles of money searching some reservoir on the basis of yet another physic experience by some deluded lawyer.  You couldn't make it up if you tried.

That said, it was to be expected that Kate would have dreams about the events as it was such an ordeal.  She obviously felt that sharing it with a caring copper might have helped.  Little did she know that the s..mbag would share it with the worlds media.

IIRC that lawyer financed the dam searches himself after a tip off from the underworld, whether that was the mob or the spirit world, not sure

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512164/Divers-search-Madeleines-body-remote-reservoir-underworld-tip-off.html

Gerry also wanted the PJ to follow psychic leads


From a memo to Mr Amaral from Mr Paiva  page 2533

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm

With regard to Gerald McCann, he constantly insisted in giving the undersigned letters and emails that he was receiving, mostly from psychics and mediums, whom he had selected and which mainly contained information without much credibility about the possible whereabouts of Madeleine and her presumed abductor.

More recently, and even before Kate's interrogation, during a telephone call between Gerald McCann and the undersigned, he made a reference regarding the investigation, that he was certain that the police did not have any proof that could incriminate them with regard to the death of Madeleine McCann and he said that the police were wasting their time in directing the investigation around the parents.

[DCI]

Why was Paiva and Almeida, both taken off the case, in September 2007, before Amaral was?.

[faithlilly]

"Denial in the face of overwhelming evidence" - of what?!  The idiot here is Paiva but you are seeking to impugn Gerry McCann on the basis of absolutely nothing - why?  What is wrong with you?

Denial that his wife had called Paiva about a dream. Do keep up.

[faithlilly]

Why was Paiva and Almeida, both taken off the case, in September 2007, before Amaral was?.

If I remember correctly they left rather than being taken off of the case but I may be wrong.

[icabodcrane]

If I remember correctly they left rather than being taken off of the case but I may be wrong.

Kate says in her book,  when recounting the hearing in Lisbon 

"The most disturbing thing is that it is Paiva who,  to this day receives any information about Madeleine  coming in to the Portuguese investigation"

[Benice]

I don't understand why it matters that Kate had a dream that Madeleine was dead ...  it was a  dream and holding it up as some sort of evidence seems pretty desperate to me

Gerry's reaction and denial was strange though.  He could perfectly reasonably have just said that there had been many nightmares since Madeleine was taken,  and he was sorry that he hadn't been there to comfort Kate at the time

The 'dream' was bizarrely (IMO)  being used as 'evidence' to suggest that Kate knew that Madeleine was dead and knew where her body was.      Therefore Gerry was quite right to point out that Kate did not dream anything like what was being suggested  - as part of a court case.

He said: “I’d like to make it absolutely clear that Kate has never had a dream that Maddie has been buried somewhere, and I don’t know if something’s been lost in interpretation, but that didn’t happen – not with those words, that’s for sure.”
unquote

In the circumstances - I think he was quite right to make that clarification.

[AnneGuedes]

Take away the dog alerts (which was nothing!) and there was, well, nothing ...

D - Dog searches and Constitution of Gerald McCann and Kate Healy as arguidos
2 pages.. nothing !

[AnneGuedes]

I don't think the dream is significant in any evidential way     ...  because Kate  dreamed  that Madeleine was dead has no bearing at all on whether she actually was or not

If Gerry felt compelled to comment then he might have  stressed that point, rather than lend weight to the suggestion that Kate's dream was signicant by strenuously denying it had  ever happened

Mr McCann is certainly less subtle than you, Icabodcrane !

[faithlilly]

Kate says in her book,  when recounting the hearing in Lisbon 

"The most disturbing thing is that it is Paiva who,  to this day receives any information about Madeleine  coming in to the Portuguese investigation"

If the case is shelved wouldn't Paiva be receiving information as part of his general duties rather than specifically working on the case ?

[icabodcrane]

The 'dream' was bizarrely (IMO)  being used as 'evidence' to suggest that Kate knew that Madeleine was dead and knew where her body was.      Therefore Gerry was quite right to point out that Kate did not dream anything like what was being suggested  - as part of a court case.

He said: “I’d like to make it absolutely clear that Kate has never had a dream that Maddie has been buried somewhere, and I don’t know if something’s been lost in interpretation, but that didn’t happen – not with those words, that’s for sure.”
unquote

In the circumstances - I think he was quite right to make that clarification.

Well, I feel all that was necessary was for Gerry to ridicule the fact that the Portuguese investigation's  change of direction  was based on a  'dream'  (  because it was worthy of ridicule )

By  denying the dream occured at all,  or insisting that it had been misinterpreted,  Gerry looked rattled and gave  the appearance he was floundering for excuses   ( when, in truth,  Kate's dream required no excuse ...  so what if she dreamt Madeleine was dead, afterall )

Just to mention though, what I do find a bit bizarre is that Kate would be ringing a Portuguese policeman to tell him about her dreams in the first place