New M.A.D.D.I.E. Security Device

[Benice]

No, Benice, I'm just saying that without a source anything is at best hearsay.
Where in the files, please ?

The information was part of the files in Kate's possession.   They were reports from the British parents.   Pages 322 and 323 of Kate's book refer to them.  They were statements in English from British witnesses, which had been forwarded to the PJ by Leicestershire police.    They are not hearsay.   Have you actually read the book?

[icabodcrane]

The information was part of the files in Kate's possession.   They were reports from the British parents.   Pages 322 and 323 of Kate's book refer to them.  They were statements in English from British witnesses, which had been forwarded to the PJ by Leicestershire police.    They are not hearsay.   Have you actually read the book?

I've read the book Benice,  and,  still on topic,  did you find any reference in it as to why the McCanns chose to leave the patio doors unlocked  ? 

I may have missed it, but I found no explanation or reason given at all for them having done so .... did you  ?

It's very releven to this thread, I think,  given that this  'device'  would have been useless in the McCann's case since the doors were unlocked in the first place

[AnneGuedes]

The information was part of the files in Kate's possession.   They were reports from the British parents.   Pages 322 and 323 of Kate's book refer to them.  They were statements in English from British witnesses, which had been forwarded to the PJ by Leicestershire police.    They are not hearsay.   Have you actually read the book?

Do you suggest Mrs McCann has files that aren't part of the DVD provided by the Portuguese MP ?
In Mrs McCann's book, all I read is hearsay.
I cast my mind back to what the British consul had told me in the police station in Portimão that first day about the reports there had been of intruders getting into bed with children.  I needed to know more about this.
I got in touch with the retired British consul for the Algarve. He told me that he used to have regular monthly meetings with British tour operators along the coast in Albufeira, at which crime was invariably one of the topics covered. At one of these meetings in August 2006 he had been informed by the tour operators of the spate of incidents I’d heard about the day after Madeleine was taken, in which an intruder had got into holiday apartments at night, climbed into children’s beds and subjected them to various forms and degrees of molestation. It seemed the attacker would often lock the door to the parents’ bedroom before assaulting the child. In one case, the paedophile had put on some of the father’s aftershave in an attempt to soothe or deceive the child.
It was believed that this offender (or offenders) watched for patterns and routines in a family’s behaviour, established ‘weaknesses’ in the security of their apartment and determined in advance where parents and children slept. Cold shivers ran down my spine as it hit home that this might have applied to us. The British tour operators had been keen for this information to remain confidential (and you don’t have to be a genius to work out why that might be). I pressed the former British consul on what happened afterwards. Had there been an investigation? Had anybody been convicted? He wasn’t sure but thought that an immigrant construction worker had been arrested and released pending trial, which was likely to take place some years down the line. Unbelievable.
Is it unbelievable if it had to be kept confidential, as the tour operators, seemingly breaking up a promise, had told the consul ?
How could that happen (because I don't deny this kind of misfortune happens) ? See Funny Games and you'll understand the mecanisms that turn these practices possible.
Concerning the McCann family btw, they were the ones who left the door open and also none of the “consul” cases was an abduction !

[Benice]

I've read the book Benice,  and,  still on topic,  did you find any reference in it as to why the McCanns chose to leave the patio doors unlocked  ? 

I may have missed it, but I found no explanation or reason given at all for them having done so .... did you  ?

It's very releven to this thread, I think,  given that this  'device'  would have been useless in the McCann's case since the doors were unlocked in the first place

No I haven't Icab - but I could make an educated guess about the patio doors - as most people will invariably take the much shorter route rather than one which is twice as long when given the choice.   It's human nature.
   
The 'device' is irrelevant IMO because it wasn't invented when the McCanns went on holiday.   It was invented as a result of what happened to Madeleine, which a father momentarily feared had happened to one of his children, and had the fright of his life.     Thankfully he was wrong.     

According to that gentleman the locked patio door was no problem at all for the criminal - who opened it regardless.    So even a locked patio door is no guarantee against a determined intruder. 

His invention is brilliant IMO and it's good to know that positive action can sometimes result from tragedy.

[Benice]

Do you suggest Mrs McCann has files that aren't part of the DVD provided by the Portuguese MP ?
In Mrs McCann's book, all I read is hearsay.
I cast my mind back to what the British consul had told me in the police station in Portimão that first day about the reports there had been of intruders getting into bed with children.  I needed to know more about this.
I got in touch with the retired British consul for the Algarve. He told me that he used to have regular monthly meetings with British tour operators along the coast in Albufeira, at which crime was invariably one of the topics covered. At one of these meetings in August 2006 he had been informed by the tour operators of the spate of incidents I’d heard about the day after Madeleine was taken, in which an intruder had got into holiday apartments at night, climbed into children’s beds and subjected them to various forms and degrees of molestation. It seemed the attacker would often lock the door to the parents’ bedroom before assaulting the child. In one case, the paedophile had put on some of the father’s aftershave in an attempt to soothe or deceive the child.
It was believed that this offender (or offenders) watched for patterns and routines in a family’s behaviour, established ‘weaknesses’ in the security of their apartment and determined in advance where parents and children slept. Cold shivers ran down my spine as it hit home that this might have applied to us. The British tour operators had been keen for this information to remain confidential (and you don’t have to be a genius to work out why that might be). I pressed the former British consul on what happened afterwards. Had there been an investigation? Had anybody been convicted? He wasn’t sure but thought that an immigrant construction worker had been arrested and released pending trial, which was likely to take place some years down the line. Unbelievable.
Is it unbelievable if it had to be kept confidential, as the tour operators, seemingly breaking up a promise, had told the consul ?
How could that happen (because I don't deny this kind of misfortune happens) ? See Funny Games and you'll understand the mecanisms that turn these practices possible.
Concerning the McCann family btw, they were the ones who left the door open and also none of the “consul” cases was an abduction !

Anne I have no idea how Kate came to be in possession of this part of the files, which for obvious reasons would not be allowed into the public domain.

I can only speculate that the Leicester police considered them significant enough for Kate and Gerry to know about.    I assume they would have asked the families' permission first - and that unsurprisingly - that permission was gladly given.      Kate is careful not to identify the families in any way, except to say they are British and that they had taken holidays at places all within an hour's drive of PdL during which their children were assaulted by intruder(s) and in most instances there was no sign of a break in. 

I don't agree that information from written statements is hearsay. 

[icabodcrane]

Anne I have no idea how Kate came to be in possession of this part of the files, which for obvious reasons would not be allowed into the public domain.

I can only speculate that the Leicester police considered them significant enough for Kate and Gerry to know about.    I assume they would have asked the families' permission first - and that unsurprisingly - that permission was gladly given.      Kate is careful not to identify the families in any way, except to say they are British and that they had taken holidays at places all within an hour's drive of PdL during which their children were assaulted by intruder(s) and in most instances there was no sign of a break in. 

I don't agree that information from written statements is hearsay.

The pages from Kate's book which you refer to  ( 322/323   ) definately imply that Kate read the information directly from the police files

It is odd though that Kate says  ( page 367  )  that their own search had significant  limitiations because the Portuguese authorites possess a great deal of material that was not included in the police file released into the public domain ...  which suggests the McCanns themselves only had access to the same information we have access to

I don't think the information could have come from Leicester police,  who actually won a court case the McCanns had brought against them when they were trying to get access to Leicester police files

[AnneGuedes]

Anne I have no idea how Kate came to be in possession of this part of the files, which for obvious reasons would not be allowed into the public domain.

I can only speculate that the Leicester police considered them significant enough for Kate and Gerry to know about.    I assume they would have asked the families' permission first - and that unsurprisingly - that permission was gladly given.      Kate is careful not to identify the families in any way, except to say they are British and that they had taken holidays at places all within an hour's drive of PdL during which their children were assaulted by intruder(s) and in most instances there was no sign of a break in. 

I don't agree that information from written statements is hearsay.

If you have no idea "how Mrs McCann came in possession", then she likely never was in possession of any written statement, which would appear reasonable given the clause of confidentiality.
As I said, as these cases are not abduction cases and as besides the doors weren't unlocked, I really don't see why the LC would have tortured Mr and Mrs McCann with these appalling stories.

[faithlilly]

The information was part of the files in Kate's possession.   They were reports from the British parents.   Pages 322 and 323 of Kate's book refer to them.  They were statements in English from British witnesses, which had been forwarded to the PJ by Leicestershire police.    They are not hearsay.   Have you actually read the book?

Are there any reference to the statements in the released files or merely the McCanns set ?

[icabodcrane]

Are there any reference to the statements in the released files or merely the McCanns set ?

But  Kate, in her book,  makes no mention of them having their own excusive  'set'  of files  ...  in fact, she bemoans the fact that they only have access to the released files,  from which much information is withheld

[Benice]

If you have no idea "how Mrs McCann came in possession", then she likely never was in possession of any written statement, which would appear reasonable given the clause of confidentiality.
As I said, as these cases are not abduction cases and as besides the doors weren't unlocked, I really don't see why the LC would have tortured Mr and Mrs McCann with these appalling stories.

If Kate didn't have the statements, how could she give a direct quote from a letter written to the GNR by one of the parents?  As that parent said, if this man was not caught, then he could go on to do worse than assault children in their own beds.  She was complaining about the lack of investigation or action shown by the GNR. 

That same lack of investigation/action would not go unnoticed by the paedaphile(s) and surely would encourage them to believe they could take things to another level if they wanted to IMO.

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here Anne, are you saying the fact that British children had been targetted by paedaphiles in holiday complexes, in the same area from where Madeleine was abducted has no relevance?    If that was the case why would the British Consul bring those cases to the attention of the McCanns in the first place.   The 8 families who came forward also thought they were relevant.

 

[faithlilly]

But  Kate, in her book,  makes no mention of them having their own excusive  'set'  of files  ...  in fact, she bemoans the fact that they only have access to the released files,  from which much information is withheld

I was being facetious Icabod 

[AnneGuedes]

If Kate didn't have the statements, how could she give a direct quote from a letter written to the GNR by one of the parents?  As that parent said, if this man was not caught, then he could go on to do worse than assault children in their own beds. She was complaining about the lack of investigation or action shown by the GNR. 

This letter isn't in the files, as Icabodcrane noted Mrs McCann received the same DVD as journalists and was refused access to the LC files. Then either Mrs McCann used some letter she found in some tabloid or the British consul gave her that letter, which I really can't believe.
Why should Mrs McCann "invent" a letter ? You have answered this, Benice. There's no other reason as Madeleine wasn't molested in her bed.

[Benice]

This letter isn't in the files, as Icabodcrane noted Mrs McCann received the same DVD as journalists and was refused access to the LC files. Then either Mrs McCann used some letter she found in some tabloid or the British consul gave her that letter, which I really can't believe.
Why should Mrs McCann "invent" a letter ? You have answered this, Benice. There's no other reason as Madeleine wasn't molested in her bed.

Quote from Kate's book.

These incidents had occurred within an hour's drive of Praia da Luz over the three years prior to Madeleines disappearance.  Th PJ had never mentioned any of them to us.  In fact I gathered from the files, some of them hadn't even been recorded by the authorities at the time they were reported (evidently they were not considered to be actual crimes).   So they might never have come to light if the parents of these childen hadn't been brave enough to come forward to the British police after Madeleine was taken and relive their nightmares.  They did so in the belief that there could be a link between what had happened to their children and what had happened to her.
Unquote.

I don't believe Kate would be so stupid as to make any of that up - knowing that it could be immediately exposed as lies by the Leicester police.    That makes no sense.



     

[icabodcrane]

If Kate didn't have the statements, how could she give a direct quote from a letter written to the GNR by one of the parents?  As that parent said, if this man was not caught, then he could go on to do worse than assault children in their own beds.  She was complaining about the lack of investigation or action shown by the GNR. 

That same lack of investigation/action would not go unnoticed by the paedaphile(s) and surely would encourage them to believe they could take things to another level if they wanted to IMO.

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here Anne, are you saying the fact that British children had been targetted by paedaphiles in holiday complexes, in the same area from where Madeleine was abducted has no relevance?    If that was the case why would the British Consul bring those cases to the attention of the McCanns in the first place.   The 8 families who came forward also thought they were relevant.

 

A question

It is not just the McCann investigation that was released to the public is it ?  ...  I take it all investigations  ( once closed or shelved )  are freely available to view  ? 

Could it be that the McCanns got hold of the files of the investigations of the children in question  ?  ...  could it be that when Kate refered to  'police files'  she was actually refering to police files other  than the ones related to Madeleine ?

Is that a possibility do you think ? 

[Redblossom]

in the mccanns c4 documentary there was footage of pages which are not in the police dvd given out, now these could be pages typed up by their private investigators who who knows may have gone and interviewed people in the uk as no one was stopping them, it was just illegal in portugal to carry on a parallel investigation

The issue of the sex attacks on british children is bewildering, but mustbe as KM said, told to her by British authorities, she cant be THAT brass necked to lie about them