Was there a connection between the phone ping and the report of a child crying on Tue 1st May?

[Carana]

It doesnt matter if it was switched on or off at any time

And that report is an analysis of antenna pings qnd locations off Kms phones for april to sept, there is NO detailed record of her usage in the files APART from May 2-3-4

Why not?

[icabodcrane]

I have no doubt that she was an honest witness and quite probably a very kindly lady.

That's not the point, though. The PJ don't seem to have taken any measures to verify whether her recollection of time / date and location of sound were accurate. She wasn't even interviewed until the latter half of August - and then it was a simple witness statement.

Mrs Fenn appeared,  to me,  to be a very articulate and able lady

I have to ask, Carana,  what is your rationale for  doubting  her recollection of time/date/location of sound accuracy  ? 

[Carana]

Mrs Fenn appeared,  to me,  to be a very articulate and able lady

I have to ask, Carana,  what is your rationale for  doubting  her recollection of time/date/location of sound accuracy  ?

There was a long thread on here:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1237.0

[Redblossom]

Why not?

Ok forget that, what difference would it make to anythng if the phone was switched on/standby as you call it, the pings are dates and times of the phonebeing activated, and for the last time, we do not know why and by who as the files do not tell us for that day in any detail at all, it seems KMs detailed phone records were not requested, or never provided to the PJ, end of, my last post here

[icabodcrane]

There was a long thread on here:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1237.0

But that thread suggests Mrs Fenn never  MADE the statement about a child crying at  ALL  to the police

(  In fact,  in essence,  the thread you have linked to appears to suggest that Mrs Fenn's police statement was some sort of  'forgery'  ) 

Is that your position Carana  ...  do you think Mrs Fenn's police statement was forged  ?  ...  or do you have other reasons for doubting her  word

[Redblossom]

But that thread suggests Mrs Fenn never  MADE the statement about a child crying at  ALL  to the police

(  In fact,  in essence,  the thread you have linked to appears to suggest that Mrs Fenn's police statement was some sort of  'forgery'  ) 

Is that your position Carana  ...  do you think Mrs Fenn's police statement was forged  ?  ...  or do you have other reasons for doubting her  word

not a  ferryman thread perchance LOL

Eta, oops, just clicked, and yes!

[Carana]

But that thread suggests Mrs Fenn never  MADE the statement about a child crying at  ALL  to the police

(  In fact,  in essence,  the thread you have linked to appears to suggest that Mrs Fenn's police statement was some sort of  'forgery'  ) 

Is that your position Carana  ...  do you think Mrs Fenn's police statement was forged  ?  ...  or do you have other reasons for doubting her  word

No. I have never thought her statement was forged. (There may or may not have been mistakes or misunderstandings in it... and we'll never know about that.)

My point is that the interview could have probed further and been cross-referenced.

- She didn't think that the sound came from a child under two. What was the actual term used? Infant? Or something else?

- What made her notice the time when it started? Did she look at a clock? Was she watching a particular TV programme? Where was she in the apartment? Did she move around her apartment during that time? If so, from where to where?

- Could she have heard various children crying at different times from different locations?

- When did she ring her friend? The PJ didn't double-check when that was (date/time).

- She heard a veranda door sliding which coincided with when the crying stopped. Was there anything that made her sure which veranda door it was?

- Did she hear either of the gates being opened and closed prior to the sound of veranda door?

- Does the veranda door make a different noise if it is being opened as opposed to being shut?


I could go on...

[icabodcrane]

No. I have never thought her statement was forged. (There may or may not have been mistakes or misunderstandings in it... and we'll never know about that.)

My point is that the interview could have probed further and been cross-referenced.

- She didn't think that the sound came from a child under two. What was the actual term used? Infant? Or something else?

- What made her notice the time when it started? Did she look at a clock? Was she watching a particular TV programme? Where was she in the apartment? Did she move around her apartment during that time? If so, from where to where?

- Could she have heard various children crying at different times from different locations?

- When did she ring her friend? The PJ didn't double-check when that was (date/time).

- She heard a veranda door sliding which coincided with when the crying stopped. Was there anything that made her sure which veranda door it was?

- Did she hear either of the gates being opened and closed prior to the sound of veranda door?

- Does the veranda door make a different noise if it is being opened as opposed to being shut?


I could go on...

You have listed your doubts about Mrs Fenn's statement  ...  but you have not explained your reasons for doubting her statement in the first place

What is there about Mrs Fenn  (  who appeared extremely articule and has been described by her niece as being  'mentally astute'  )  that leads to think her statement, as she gave it,  should not be accepted as being accurate  ? 

[Carana]

You have listed your doubts about Mrs Fenn's statement  ...  but you have not explained your reasons for doubting her statement in the first place

What is there about Mrs Fenn  (  who appeared extremely articule and has been described by her niece as being  'mentally astute'  )  that leads to think her statement, as she gave it,  should not be accepted as being accurate  ?

I'm not sure what you mean.

I have doubts that that (tardy) statement taken by the PJ is as complete as it could have been for the reasons listed above.

I'm not criticising her. Poor lady, trying to remember details 3 and a half months later.

And I think that that is valid whatever the scenario.

[icabodcrane]

I'm not sure what you mean.

I have doubts that that (tardy) statement taken by the PJ is as complete as it could have been for the reasons listed above.

I'm not criticising her. Poor lady, trying to remember details 3 and a half months later.

And I think that that is valid whatever the scenario.

I'll try to explain what I mean

Mrs Fenn was an articulate lady described as being mentally astute by those who knew her

Her witness statement says that she heard a child crying in the McCanns apartment below her between 10.30pm and 11.45pm,  the child becoming increasingly distressed

I see no reason not to accept that statement as being accurate

You,  however,  appear to doubt it,  yet give no explanation for doing so

You seem, for some reason,   to expect Mrs Fenn to have  'proven'   her witness statement  ...  why  ?

Why do you feel it is necessary for this witness's statement to be 'backed up' before you accept it as truthful  ? 

Why do you doubt Mrs Fenn's reliability as a witness  ? 

[Redblossom]

the same as throwing doubt on anything that *might* put the mccanns in a bad light, that is all, you dont see the same amount of time or energy spent on any of the questionable tapas group statements, or video interviews, they are all apologised for whatever they say, with a variety of excuses, in other words, anythng and everything will have an innocent  explanation as mitchell declared to a degree that bypasses credulity times over
But when it comes to awkward statements and events from third parties its always fraud, lying,mistaken, bad translations, nasty people, brown envelopes and any other imagnary evil act etc etc
 

Smell the pr and propaganda coffee, any fool can,ps Icab not referrng to you

[AnneGuedes]

But the most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success.
Germany was the first victim of this principle.

[Carana]

I'll try to explain what I mean

Mrs Fenn was an articulate lady described as being mentally astute by those who knew her

Her witness statement says that she heard a child crying in the McCanns apartment below her between 10.30pm and 11.45pm,  the child becoming increasingly distressed

I see no reason not to accept that statement as being accurate

You,  however,  appear to doubt it,  yet give no explanation for doing so

You seem, for some reason,   to expect Mrs Fenn to have  'proven'   her witness statement  ...  why  ?

Why do you feel it is necessary for this witness's statement to be 'backed up' before you accept it as truthful  ? 

Why do you doubt Mrs Fenn's reliability as a witness  ?

My point would be the same if I thought that the parents really had not been to check on their children during all that time or whether an intruder could have been in there.


The first PJ team only took a statement from an elderly lady who happened to be an immediate neighbour... 3 and a half months later?


It's not about doubting her as a witness. Where noise actually comes from in apartment blocks can be deceptive.

[John]

It's not about doubting her as a witness. Where noise actually comes from in apartment blocks can be deceptive.

My own experience of this type of holiday apartment is that after a while you become used to noises and can usually determine where any particular noise is coming from.  Noises originating from directly underneath are usually much clearer than noises which originate from more distant apartments. Also, a loud noise from underneath causes a vibration.

Likewise, a resident above an apartment becomes very aware after a while of the opening and closing of sliding patio doors. They can usually tell if the sound has originated from the apartment directly underneath.

[Mrs. B]

My point would be the same if I thought that the parents really had not been to check on their children during all that time or whether an intruder could have been in there.


The first PJ team only took a statement from an elderly lady who happened to be an immediate neighbour... 3 and a half months later?


It's not about doubting her as a witness. Where noise actually comes from in apartment blocks can be deceptive.

I agree, it's extremely deceptive. Don't know how many times I've complained about noise to the WRONG people in the past.